Founder of ServiceSpace, Karma Kitchen, DailyGood and KindSpring, he successfully works to integrate the Gift Ecology, technology and volunteerism. He is recognized globally for creating a culture that brings harmony and inclusiveness.

Nipun-Mehta.jpg

Nipun Mehta

Many to many

<h4>
 NIPUN MEHTA is one of the founders
 of ServiceSpace, Karma Kitchen, DailyGood, KindSpring and other
 organizations that successfully work within the Gift Ecology. From a
 young age, he was inspired by the need to serve others. Early role
 models like J. Krishnamurti, Gandhi, Swami Vivekananda and Goenka
 further fuelled that urge so that it has blossomed into a life of
 joyful, cheerful service. He was the recipient of the Dalai Lama’s
 Unsung Heroes of Compassion Award in 2014, and appointed to President
 Barack Obama’s Council on Poverty and Inequality in 2015. Here Nipun
 continues to explain the principles underlying the Gift Ecology to
 ELIZABETH DENLEY.
</h4>

 Q: What happens in that dynamic of trust in relationships when
 people’s innate tendencies and fears surface? And of course they will,
 because we’re all human. We’re all carrying baggage from the past –
 culture, family, whatever – and these things arise. How do we deal
 with it?


 That’s why relationships are complicated. Anyone who has been in any
 relationship will tell you that it’s not so simple. It’s not like I give
 you five bucks, you give me the food and that’s the end of it. If I’m
 actually engaging with you in a multidimensional way, that’s going to
 evoke something – it may trigger me in certain ways. It may be much
 simpler and more convenient for me to not have that relationship and
 just engage in a transaction. So then why engage in relationships when
 it requires so much of me?


 Q: This is the critical question, Nipun, because this is at the root
 of so much that needs to change in our societies globally today. Not
 just in the West. It’s the same in India, and it’s the same in China.
 This is the million dollar question.

Yes indeed.

 Q: How do we work with relationships? It’s not transactional in the
 sense that people are not doing something for money, and they’re not
 even doing something for recognition a lot of the time. The whole
 ethos of service, seva, is anonymity, humility, the Gandhi
 values etc. So how do we build this culture of trust without having
 transactions, without having carrots, if you like?


 <img
 class="has-img-center lazyload w-100 h-auto"
 src="https://cdn-prod-static.heartfulness.org/nipun_mehta2_a6290a9527.jpg?updated_at=2023-04-05T06:14:55.643Z"
 alt="nipun-mehta2"
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 It takes many inner capacities that we need to cultivate. And if we do
 cultivate those inner capacities, the reward is that we get a high
 bandwidth engagement with life. So then we may ask: What actually
 happens when I’m in a relationship and certain parts of the relationship
 are difficult? And I have to now deal with those difficult parts to get
 to the high bandwidth engagement with life. I need to grow in
 equanimity, I need to grow in tolerance, and I need to grow in patience.


 It’s much easier in a consumeristic mindset, where we think, “Hey, I
 want this, I want it now, and I want to get to the next thing.” And if
 we keep doing it, that consumerism is going to get us to a very cheap
 engagement with life. So how do we build the virtues that lead to a
 higher engagement with life? And as we inch towards that high engagement
 of life, what we understand is that it’s never been between us and the
 other person in a one-to-one way ever. It’s just that we have reduced it
 to that.


 One of my friends was in San Quentin prison with people who had
 committed at least one murder. They were in a circle and they were
 sharing. At one point my friend got a board and asked, “Can you tell me
 how long you’ve been in jail?” He started writing it down and everyone
 shared: 20 years, 40 years, 12 years, and so on. He added it up and it
 was something like 484 years. Then he created another column and asked,
 “How long was your moment of rage?” 2 minutes, 7 minutes, 40 minutes, 1
 minute, and he added it up and said, “In this circle, for a couple of
 hours of rage we have spent hundreds of years in jail.”


 That kind of a mirroring created a very powerful vibe in the room.
 During the follow-up circle of sharing, one of the guys said, “You know
 what I think? Hurt people hurt people. A person is never negative to you
 in a one-to-one sort of way. Just as we pay forward kindness, we also
 pay forward negativity. We also pay forward selfishness.” So he said, “I
 hurt somebody because someone hurt me.” The circle continued, and a
 little bit later another member of the circle said, “I’d like to add to
 that. Hurt people hurt people, but I think healed people heal people.”

<hr />
<h5 style="text-align: center">
 So when we look at relationships and the inconvenience of them, 
 it is actually an invitation to grow in virtue, 
 so that we’re able to go from that cheap bandwidth 
 to a much deeper engagement in a much more multidimensional
 way. 
 And if we do that, then in that field so much can grow, 
 and in turn we can build trust in society.
</h5>
<hr />

 So who do I have to be when I see somebody harming me? Who do I have to
 be to hold that whole lineage of conditions and have a big enough heart
 to say, “I will endure this and rebound it back with compassion.” The
 reward for that is not just that the other person might be healed in
 some way, but that you are graced with an incredibly high bandwidth
 engagement with the present moment.


 We saw people like Gandhi do exactly this. Godse put 3 bullets through
 him, and Gandhi’s response was, “Bless you, bless you, bless you.” He
 was not condoning the negative action, but rather he was saying, “I
 oppose the action, but you are much more than that action, and I love
 you.” That larger ‘you’.


 So when we look at relationships and the inconvenience of them, it is
 actually an invitation to grow in virtue, so that we’re able to go from
 that cheap bandwidth to a much deeper engagement in a much more
 multidimensional way.


 And if we do that, then in that field so much can grow, and in turn we
 can build trust in society.


 <img
 class="has-img-center lazyload w-100 h-auto"
 src="https://cdn-prod-static.heartfulness.org/nipun_mehta_381fdf86a8.jpg?updated_at=2023-04-05T06:15:55.703Z"
 alt="nipun-mehta"
 />


 Q: So will this spread, do you think, to all the Afro-American kids
 who are in prison, all the Latino boys who are in prison? You know
 there is a lot of cultural divide, even in a wealthy country like the
 US. And I know there are people like the Greater Good Science team who
 are trying to address those social issues, because it isn’t an equal
 playing field either. So who is responsible for this?


 You and I! We can’t lose our agency through this process. Even with
 generosity – we tend to view generosity as a luxury sport. We say,
 “Look, if you accumulate like me and become very successful, then you
 can give.” But actually it’s not a luxury sport. Those who have the
 least end up giving the most.


 My wife and I were on a walking pilgrimage in 2005. We ate whatever food
 was offered and slept wherever place was offered, and those who had
 absolutely nothing would borrow food to feed us. We are wired to care,
 we are wired to give, we are wired to be related&nbsp;– and neuroscience
 now confirms all this. So we know that we want to do this, but we need
 spaces where we can explore it further. Of course it will take time.
 This isn’t a quick fix; it’s not going to happen overnight; .


 As you said, we have a lot of inequities. But fortunately, generosity,
 compassion, kindness are not reserved for those who have ‘made it’.
 There is no worthy destination until we arrive at acting with compassion
 in any moment&nbsp;– even if it’s silent, even if it’s a humble prayer.
 I have had homeless people on the streets start out by asking me for
 money, and by the end they offer me money. It’s not that I’m asking for
 money, but it’s just that they feel a kinship, they feel a brotherhood.
 And when you feel that brotherhood, you want to serve that brotherhood.


 So how do we tap into that kind of agency and trust the ripple effect?
 This is not going to happen overnight, because the problem was not
 created overnight. It took a long time. It’s just that we weren’t paying
 attention when it was drip by drip by drip. We were de-capacitating
 ourselves drip by drip by drip. And now, drip by drip by drip we have to
 turn it around.


 So if you ask, “What’s the quick fix solution?” I would say there isn’t
 any. And so you may ask, “Are you still committed to that? Are you
 committed to spread love, to do that small act of kindness, to plant
 that tree under whose shade you will never sit, whose blossoming you may
 never get to witness?” I’m willing to do that. It makes me come alive. I
 don’t need that immediate feedback loop. So if you and I are willing to
 step into the space, then I think that’s the start of the revolution.


 Q: Right. So what are the projects in your revolution at the moment?
 What’s happening and what’s going to happen? What’s your vision?


 So ServiceSpace is an incubator of many different projects. We have some
 that are online, like DailyGood and KarmaTube. These projects create
 online communities, spread inspiration. Some are offline, like Awakin
 Circles and Karma Kitchen. Some are in-between, like KindSpring, home of
 the Smile Cards, that create an online community, where people share
 stories, but the Smile Card act is actually in person, in offline space.


 So we have been creating this ecology of many different projects. But
 what binds all of them together is not the projects but the process.
 That process, for the entire ServiceSpace ecosystem includes an
 alignment with three basic building blocks:

<ol>
 <li>
 The first principle is that we’re volunteer run. When no one is paid,
 we are driven entirely by intrinsic motivations. Initially, that
 sounds cute, when you’re starting and you say, “We’re five
 volunteers.” But when you’re 500,000, the field of intelligence, that
 field of purely intrinsically motivated intelligence, is just
 profoundly different in its patterns of innovation.
 </li>
 <li>
 The second principle is that we work with what we have. Not seeking or
 scheming. And the way it manifests concretely is that we never
 fundraise. We just say, “This is what we have,” so we work with what
 we have, which forces us to look at multiple forms of capit We’re no
 longer only thinking that money equals wealth; that is, we don’t think
 without money we can’t do anything. Quite the opposite. Money is one
 form of capital, but so is time, so is attention, so is technology, so
 are stories, cultures and so on. Our creative constraint invites us to
 engage with other forms of capital.
 </li>
 <li>
 The third principle is that we focus on small, which means that we
 never say, “Go out and try to change the world.” We never design for
 that threshold of impact. And when you’re small, the onus is on you to
 be the change. You can’t say, “Oh, I’m trying to change this in this
 person.” You say, “Oh, am I being the change?” And if I’m being the
 change, am I growing in equanimity? Am I growing in tolerance? Am I
 growing in patience? Am I growing in compassion, generosity, and
 kindness? Am I manifesting that in every relationship? And am I then
 trusting the ripple effect of that, as opposed to trusting the ripple
 effect of the might of one’s organization?
 </li>
</ol>

 <img
 class="has-img-center lazyload w-100 h-auto"
 src="https://cdn-prod-static.heartfulness.org/nipun_mehta4_f0946607fc.jpg?updated_at=2023-04-05T06:16:32.444Z"
 alt="nipun-mehta4"
 />


 So these creative constraints are what encompass the whole ServiceSpace
 ecosystem. So we have many projects, doing so many things and touching
 millions of people on a regular basis, but underneath them, the way I
 parse it is that it’s actually about the process underneath, which are
 these core values.

Now, looking at the field, what is emerging right now?

 One thing that has recently emerged is this idea of a Laddership Circle.
 We talk about leadership, which is command and control, whereas
 laddership is about being in the back of the room, tuning into the
 myriad relationships that make up that community. And you change an
 ecosystem not by power, not by control, not by force and coercion, but
 actually by nudges, predicated on your capacity to know the
 interrelationships between everybody.


 For example, look at the way acupuncture works. If I have a neck ache,
 the acupuncturist may place a little pin on my arm – because the knee is
 connected to so many other parts and it creates this ripple effect that
 heals my neck. Similarly, we do that in a social context. It works in
 the same way, and it’s far less violent than other options.


 Then, the question is – how can we &nbsp;create a whole context,
 especially for young people, to hold all this, not as a leader, not as
 somebody who is mighty and centralized, but as a decentralized ecology
 that you hold with this kind of a heart? And that’s not something that
 is taught, and we don’t explore it. So we’ve started these Laddership
 Circles, which have been remarkable. We just had a Nobel Peace Laureate
 who joined one of these circles. They are peer-learning circles, so one
 person doesn’t teach another person. There are small groups of 6 to 8
 folks, with 2 or 3 anchors who are just holding space on the side. And
 you’d be amazed how much we can learn from each other if get out of that
 hierarchical mindset.

<hr />
<h5 style="text-align: center">
 How do you create a whole context, 
 especially for young people, 
 to hold all this, not as a leader, 
 not as somebody who is mighty and centralized, 
 but as a decentralized ecology that 
 you hold with this kind of a heart?
</h5>
<hr />

 Q: So it’s an enabling model.


 It’s a model for growth. It’s not a manufacturing model but a gardening
 model. It’s something that’s emergent.


 Another project, which isn’t released yet, but which I’m excited about,
 is actually creating an eBay-like space, where you can pay not just with
 financial capital but also with other forms of capital. So I knitted
 this beanie for the love of it, because I enjoy knitting. Now you may be
 able to pay and maybe I need to get some money out of it. But I may also
 be happy if you go out and do an act of kindness and share the story
 with me. Or if you donate money to another NGO and send me the receipt.
 Or if you meditate for an hour and send me a reflection. We all know we
 value these actions, but we have never connected people in that sort of
 a way. And why not?


 So I’m very excited about this idea. There was a monk who came out with
 a CD, and he came to us and we were talking about how he was going to
 distribute it. We said, “You know, instead of just putting a price tag
 and doing the regular kind of distribution, why don’t you give people
 the option to also do an act of kindness and send you the story?” And
 hundreds of people sent stories! Can you imagine being a producer of
 value, in that sense, and receiving payment in alternate forms of
 wealth? Sure, I am not denying the power of financial capital. We all
 need money to pay our rent and pay our bills and things like that. But
 at the same time we can’t just blindly be focused on it. We can’t
 discount the immensity of other forms of capital that satisfy us, that
 nourish us, and that actually are regenerative, that nourish the person
 who gives, that nourish the person who receives. So how do we create a
 platform to facilitate these kinds of connections in a many-to-many sort
 of a way? I am excited about that.


 Q: That’s a real gifting ecosystem.


 Yes. And isn’t it amazing that we have all these innovations and
 technologies and we don’t think about alternate capitals? It’s almost
 like back in the days when NBC, CBS, and other centralized TV stations
 were there doing the work, but none of them could come up with a
 YouTube, because they were so entrenched in that worldview.


 Similarly I think that this is the time when spiritual people really
 need to get active, and active people &nbsp;get spiritual. We’re in a
 time when that kind of intelligence needs to arise. The innovation that
 came from YouTube disintermediated the NBCs of the world, and we saw it
 happen across the board: CDs turned into iTunes, billboards turned into
 Google AdWords. But now how do we bring these spiritual qualities into
 greater circulation, leveraging modern technologies and their new
 possibilities? And I think that’s the potential of our times and the
 need of our times. If we don’t do that we are going to continue to strip
 down of what it means to be alive.


 Q: And if we do do it?


 If we do do it, then I think we’ll have a higher engagement with life
 and a lot of virtue will grow in the field of our relationships, of our
 deep relationships. And I’d rather see that kind of a world.

Thank you.
<hr />
<h4 style="text-align: center">Interviewed by ELIZABETH DENLEY</h4>
<hr />