Thich Nhat Hanh

Awareness is like the sun

A smile

The present moment

The author of many hundreds of YouTube videos on health and nutrition based in part on his personal experience. He started the Regénére movement in France, to help people towards a more natural approach to health and well-being.


Thierry-Casasnovas.jpg

Thierry Casasnovas

<h4>When CELINE FRÉSARD started watching videos of &nbsp;THIERRY CASASNOVAS, her understanding of how the body works led her to draw a parallel between the body and the heart. To work well, the body needs to be cleaned – a cleaning of the cells through detoxification – and well nourished. And the heart, the seat of the soul, also responds to laws because the spiritual heart also requires cleaning and the nourishment of love. From this analogy, she learned that the body and the heart are gateways to deeper layers of Being. Here she interviews Thierry about his life, experiences and discoveries.</h4>Fasting is a bit like becoming wise, withdrawing,&nbsp; letting the inside act silently, secretly.&nbsp; Like a sacred space that is taking shape.&nbsp; Let the body do its work, do not hinder its regenerative work,&nbsp; have confidence, and let go.&nbsp; And to let go is to relax the mind, to put it at rest.&nbsp; This is also what meditation invites us to do,&nbsp; to calm down and to introspect.Q: Hello Thierry. Thank you for welcoming this conversation with such enthusiasm. Could you tell us in a few words about your life and the events that led you to become so passionate about life?TC: It is a fairly common story. As a child I was fine and I became an adult who was not well, to the point of almost dying at the age of 33.&nbsp;The prognosis was clear: there were only a few days left to live, and I was in a state of complete weakness, with tuberculosis, hepatitis and pancreatitis. I had put on 35 kilograms, didn’t assimilate anything anymore and threw up everything I ate.Then there was a surge of life in me. I suddenly wanted to know why I had reached this stage, and especially how I could transcend this completely passive attitude to my health. A world where arbitrariness reigns and makes us powerless is a world in which disease happens in a random way, without anyone being able to do anything about it, and this does not match my worldview. I believe that the world is made up of meaning, laws and principles. By my faith too, I believe that we live in a world structured in a perfect and functional way, so it cannot harbor perversion and arbitrariness; that is impossible.This need to find meaning in what was happening to me was decisive. You mentioned the parallel between the body and the heart; well I understood that we cannot consider one without the other; we cannot heal the body without including the spiritual, and vice versa.I was dying, and at first this surge of life was like a dazzling feeling. I think that in a state of great weakness we have moments of hypersensitivity in which we are open to the more subtle dimensions of ourselves. There was a morning when my brain was literally turned upside down in a quarter of a second, and this is what dawned on me: “If you are in this state, it is because you are dying. And if you are dying, it is because your way of life has led you here to death. Choose practices that lead to life, and you will live!” Many years later I came across this verse from the Bible: “Choose life and you will live.<hr>All of a sudden you think to yourself, “In fact, I have something fabulous inside me. There is nothing to understand and nothing to analyze. I just have to obey.” Obey what? The principle of the living, which says that the more the body is left to rest, the more it will be repaired.<hr>It became so obvious what was leading me to death and what would lead me to life. This is how I started to examine my physical life, habits, way of eating and exercising, relationships with others, and spirituality. And I came across something I didn’t expect – I discovered life and living.I became a worshipper of life, in the true sense of the word, in the spiritual sense of the word. My path was built around these questions: What is life? What is needed and what choices can we make to be alive? Because in the end we want to become truly alive, with greater vitality, so that our lives can flourish.As a scientist, a physicist, I approached this research in a rational way, by observing and experiencing the laws and principles of life. I found extremely simple, obvious, common sense things that changed everything.Q: Can you tell us a little more about these laws that govern the living?TC: Yes, they govern all living systems. It is important to know that there is a fundamental difference between the living and the non-living, something that most of the time we do not realize.We live in a world where we spend more time sitting in the car, in front of the computer, with a mobile phone in our hands, using machines all the time … and we start to consider our world through the characteristics of the non-living, while the nature of living beings has totally different characteristics.For example, a principle of all living beings, whether plants, animals or humans, is homeostasis. This principle alone radically changes the situation, and has incredible power. The principle of homeostasis says that any living system spontaneously returns to a state of equilibrium. The state of equilibrium is the state of better functioning of the organism.Q: In the absence of disturbance …TC: In any case, disturbance must be reduced. If your body takes two steps forward towards balance, and then four steps back, the result will be two steps back. So disturbances are acceptable, as long as they are reduced for the result to be equilibrium. In any case, any living organism spontaneously returns to a state of equilibrium.Sometimes people say to me, “Yes, but I have cancer.” In our society, cancer has a poor prognosis – it is the ultimate disease – so they stand in front of me and say, “How dare you tell me that my body can return to full health!”So I answer, “Have you ever considered that the tumor may be a mechanism for your body to prevent you from dying, and if the tumor hadn’t been there you would already be dead? Would you consider it? Can you think of it as an adaptive mechanism? It was your body’s last resort to protect you from an internal toxicity it could no longer manage.”Now, all of a sudden, their outlook is reversed. There is no longer any need to consider the body as something defective, which must always be repaired by specialists who will give all sorts of things to repair the dysfunctional body. That viewpoint has a kind of disgust for the living, and contempt for creation.All of a sudden you think to yourself, “In fact, I have something fabulous inside me. There is nothing to understand and nothing to analyze. I just have to obey. Obey what? The principle of the living, which says that the more the body is left to rest, the more it will be repaired. This notion of rest is very important. We often think in relation to machines, and a machine at rest is a machine not used, whereas rest for the living is not that at all.Think of a muscle: overuse leads to exhaustion and underuse leads to atrophy. We are not machines, so rest for a living being is neither overuse nor underuse, and the living being prospers when rest is used to its fullest extent. It is not leaving it in a corner on a chaise longue to vegetate; it is really using it properly. This is rest on the physical level, and then there is rest on the psychic plane and on the spiritual plane.<hr>Living beings need peace on the spiritual level,&nbsp;rest on the physical level, and quietude on the mental level, in order to prosper. When these conditions are met,&nbsp;life explodes in us, just as fire spreads in a pyre&nbsp;if the logs are well arranged.<hr>What is rest, really? Finding it is also a lifelong adventure. In heartcentered meditation practices, we understand that this is also the peace that we are seeking. And peace and rest are sine qua non for life to prosper in us. It is as simple as that. They are absolutely necessary, the biological and physiological reality of our body and life. Living beings need peace on the spiritual level, rest on the physical level, and quietude on the mental level, in order to prosper.When these conditions are met, life explodes in us, just as fire spreads in a pyre if the logs are well arranged. A small flame can become a fire that burns an entire forest, provided it is guided in the right way. The principle of fire is that it will gradually flourish, thanks to small twigs alighting quickly, bringing oxygen. If we start with large logs, the fire will go out very quickly. So there are principles and rules, and for our life it is exactly the same; if we respect these principles, life thrives in us.Often my comments are caricatured with, “He has an answer to everything.” It is not me who has the answer to everything, it is the body, it is life that has the answer to everything. Because life spontaneously goes towards life; it is the nature of life to go towards life all the time.Q: How can we promote a state of balance in this frenetic world? At what pace do we feed that fire? We can’t all live in the mountains and drink pure water, can we?TC: I agree with you, there are steps. In fact, I think the important thing is not the speed at which you walk; the important thing is the direction. And also the manner, as one of the essential dimensions of health is peace and quiet. There is no need to approach these questions in an anxious way, thinking, “I have to renew everything, otherwise I will die,” etc.It depends. There are people whose health is in such a state of deterioration that I tell them, “At this stage, there is nothing to lose. We really need to make radical changes, otherwise the little flame of life in you will soon be reduced to an ember. You don’t have too much time.” For these people, radical reform is needed at the root, but for most people things can be implemented gradually.<img src="https://cdn-prod-static.heartfulness.org/choosinglife2_63ce0707d0.jpg?updated_at=2023-04-04T08:05:29.594Z" alt="choosinglife2">There are generally two modes of functioning of living organisms. The first is catabolic, the mode of reaction and adaptation to the environment, in which the body consumes resources and produces waste. The second is rest mode, in which the body repairs itself, goes towards homeostasis, towards the best of itself. In rest mode, the body eliminates waste and everything is cleaned up. The important thing is to maintain a balance between these two modes.The problem today is that the world has become hyper catabolic, so we no longer have adequate moments of rest. I was thinking about it yesterday: with cell phones, there is no longer a moment when we are alone and bored. We always have something to read, to listen to, to do, to think, to look at, and to call someone back. On the mental level, we are in permanent hyper catabolism, the hyper solicitation of our mind.The body, too, is constantly in hyperaction: maximum pressure at work, in our daily lives, pressure to earn money, pressure to educate children, anxiety about living conditions, anxiety about the evolution of the world.The important thing is that we can say to ourselves, “Okay, I understand that this hyper catabolism is not sustainable in the long term, it is literally stifling life in me, so I will now take a new step every day in the direction of rest.”For everyone it will be different: one will approach it first on the psychological level, through meditation, for example. I think it is an ideal way to calm the mind, to calm down this kind of delirious pedaling that is constantly spinning in the head and bring it back to the essential. At the heart in particular, it’s just perfect. I am from a Christian culture and Proverbs 4:23 of the Bible says: “Above all else, guard your heart, for everything you do flows from it.” By meditating on the heart, you meditate on the source of life. It’s not nothing, it’s huge. You are connecting to the source of life.Then there are those who choose to slow down hyper catabolism by thinking about their diet: “I will make sure that every day my diet is more nutritious, and that it is of better quality.” There are others who will slow down their pace of life. They will choose to work a little less, and have more time with their families.<hr>I often ask the people I meet: Whatever you do, whatever your choices in everyday life, are you nurturing life in you and around you? In fact, if you nurture life in others, you nurture it in yourself; if you do good for others, you do good for yourself. Do your actions nourish life?<hr>Everyone will take a step forward in their own way. It is individual because, to put it simply, we each have different ‘causes of death’. For one, it comes from not getting enough sleep; for another, it will be guilt or remorse for things that happened years before; for a third, it will be indiscriminate eating; for a fourth, it will be to feed anger; and for a fifth it will be to overtrain physically, because even too much physical training leads to exhaustion. The principles are universal, but the implementation of these principles in everyone’s life is individual. We must discover and search for what in our lives pulls us towards death and understand exactly how to respond and change.There’s a word I like very much. It has a strong religious connotation, but I would like to go back to its roots because it is very powerful. That word is repentance. Repentance means ‘changing the direction, the slope’. If you’re on the verge of death, you don’t have the luxury to just say to yourself, “Okay, I have to slow down a little,” you have to completely change the direction, make adjustments. You were following the slope of death, and now you are choosing the slope of life. Go at the speed you want, but choose life under all circumstances.I often ask the people I meet: Whatever you do, whatever your choices in everyday life, are you nurturing life in you and around you? In fact, if you nurture life in others, you nurture it in yourself; if you do good for others, you do good for yourself. Do your actions nourish life? When you start despising someone in your head, making fun of them, do you feed life, either in yourself or in them? Whenever you feel guilty, do you feed life in yourself or in the other person? Every time you go to bed at two in the morning, after smoking cigarette after cigarette, do you feed life in yourself?To nurture life, in any given day the result must be favorable to life, otherwise you will go in the direction of death. It’s simple but not simplistic.Q: What if you’re too tired? It takes powerful energy to move in an upward direction. Even to think in the other direction requires a minimum of energy.TC: Powerful energy? I don’t know. Take my case, for example. I was at the end of the end of physical exhaustion. I think energy is important, but more than energy I needed conviction, a revelation in a way, what I call a turning point in the mind. And if the mind has tilted, the body will follow, even if there is very little energy.At first, you will go very slowly, but first of all you need this tilting. Look at the living thing, get to know it, understand it and love it, so that all of a sudden there’s a change in you: “Now I have the desire to feed life!” Maybe, at first, feeding life will start in a very small way on a daily basis, because we have very little energy, but we will still be on the right track.For me, this turning point is really important. It is the fundamental difference between a speaker who speaks well and one who touches my heart. We keep talking about the heart after all. Our hearts were touched and it triggered this ‘boom’, this explosion, after which we never saw the world the same way again. This is what is called a revelation in spiritual terms.And through this work, I aspire that everyone may experience this revelation – that everyone may discover life in the physical, mental and spiritual realms.To be continuedTo learn more: <a href="https://regenere.org">https://regenere.org</a><hr><h4 style="text-align:center;">Interviewed by CELINE FRÉSARD</h4><hr>

Choosing life

<h4>In part 2 of this interview, THIERRY CASASNOVAS continues his advocacy for life. He shares his own journey with CELINE FRÉSARD, the stages of his rebirth after being left for dead by doctors, and the consciousness he has derived from this profound experience. He speaks about the role of food in our lives, and how to fill the void.</h4><hr><h5 style="text-align:center;">It is the path of revelation and awakening. This revelation on the mental, physical and spiritual levels is essential. Once a person has experienced it, everything is possible.</h5><hr>Q: At the end of part 1, you told us about the turning point, the trigger, a kind of explosive transformation that leads to never seeing the world the same way again. You were talking about revelation.<img src="https://cdn-prod-static.heartfulness.org/THIERRY_CASASNOVAS_0b1dbb662e.jpg?updated_at=2023-04-05T05:42:18.979Z" alt="THIERRY-CASASNOVAS">I am someone who respects God, but I am not religious. Religion appropriates spirituality, by making people believe that there is no spirituality outside it, but if someone tells me that they have encountered life, I answer, “You have the same spiritual experience as I do.” Even if I use Christian terms to express it, we follow the same spiritual path of encounter and wonder towards life. Using a more Asiatic approach, it is the path of revelation and awakening. This revelation on the mental, physical and spiritual levels is essential. Once a person has experienced it, everything is possible.For example, after months and months in hospital, the only refuge I found was with my parents. I had nowhere else to go. After seeing several doctors march past, who could not do anything for me, they understood that I was dying, they took me in. You can imagine their panic seeing their child dying at 33. It was a disaster.The morning I was supposed to go to the hospital again, I knew I was leaving to die. I was going into palliative care because the doctors didn’t want me to die at my parents’ home. That’s when I experienced this turning point you mentioned.My father came to my room to tell me that my things were being prepared for my departure and I looked at him and told him, “I’m not going to the hospital. You’re going to take care of me and I know I’m going to live.” What captivated me at the time was that he didn’t even hesitate for a second, but simply replied, “Okay, that’s fine.”Later, I asked him what made him accept such a radical choice, when I was apparently dying, and my only chance of surviving a little longer was the hospital. He replied, “I looked into your eyes and there was a flame in them that I hadn’t seen in months.”<img src="https://cdn-prod-static.heartfulness.org/choosing_life2_156cb9a588.jpg?updated_at=2023-04-05T05:43:01.397Z" alt="choosing-life2">The flame was present. And the funny thing is that my mother was so panicked and emotional – she’s a mother – that she didn’t see it, and she called me crazy. So my father held her by the arm and said, “Look, now pack your bags and leave, because I have to take care of him and I can’t take care of you at the same time. We’ll give you news. Go on a trip, and I’ll take care of my son. I need to be one hundred percent with him.”I was in agony, I was physically dying, but the very moment there was this change in me, I was alive again. The future had taken over.The revelation of life in me has taken months, even years, to make its way, because I am still improving in relation to my state of health and vitality. At the age of 45 I have not yet reached my optimum. But within a few months without treatment, the tuberculosis that was eating away at my lungs had gone – I no longer had any tubercular lesions, the hepatitis that was eating away at my liver had disappeared, and so had the pancreatitis. I started to gain weight and energy; I started to walk and run. I was no longer at risk of cardiac arrest. I was getting better and better.It is this round trip between what is happening on the spiritual, mental and physical levels that is so fascinating.Q: So even totally exhausted people can come back to life?Yes, but first they must go through this turning point, they must regain confidence in their life processes. Then, even if they are extremely tired, they will live. However, like me with my father in my story, they need someone to support them. We need each other.The relationship to health and care has been professionalized, medicalized and reserved for a caste of accredited professionals. In what I present here, however, in the path to life, we discover that the care given to the body, which is relatively simple, comes above all from the intention of the other. That is, anyone who intends good for someone else will be the best caregiver they can dream of. My father had no medical expertise.<hr><h5 style="text-align:center;">My father, without any knowledge, had only one thing, the most powerful tool: love. Not some light New Age niceness and kindness, but the most powerful transformative force.</h5><hr>I had been living in hospital corridors for years. Doctors with ten, twelve and fifteen years of experience, great specialists, analyzed me in all directions, and passed cameras through all my orifices. I was literally tortured by these examinations. Even with all these techniques, they couldn’t do anything to stop me from dying.My father, without any knowledge, had only one thing, the most powerful tool: love. Not some light New Age niceness and kindness, but the most powerful transformative force. With this love, my father cured me with very simple things. He massaged me, fed me good food, spent time talking to me, offered me presence, and took care of me. Thanks to all this, my father allowed me to live. Without him I would never have made it. Of course there were also friends who prayed and meditated for me, who surrounded me with their presence, their motivation and their support. All this together nourished life in me.Now, all my work is a plea to let people know that each of us is the best caregiver in the world. We don’t need any particular skills, just the desire to care for others.In the Bible, there is an absolutely fabulous passage. Jesus, followed by a huge crowd, enters a house to heal the sick. A man arrives, carried on a stretcher, who is unable to get near Jesus. His friends climb on the roof, remove the tiles and lower the stretcher with ropes just in front of Jesus. Can you imagine the determination of these people? For me this message is sumptuous. They destroy the roof so that their friend can reach the source of life. They do not neglect anything; they give everything so that their friend can come back to life.This is really the message: the inner transformation, then the strength of the people around us to help in a practical way. I was at the point where I couldn’t even cut my food, where I was totally disabled in a chair. I had to be put to bed, helped to get up, and washed. Obviously, alone I would have died. So, first comes the inner change and next the neighbor.<hr><h5 style="text-align:center;">Relationships are concrete and tangible, where you touch the other person, you have them in front of you, you look into their eyes, you hear the sound of their voice, you feel the warmth of their body, and all the energy they give off.</h5><hr>Q: In your first videos, you said that we all have a God-shaped hollow inside. It brings me back to the question of what we eat and why we eat. Today we no longer really eat to eat; we eat things we don’t want without being hungry. This no longer corresponds at all to a natural need. Can you tell us about our relationship to food?We talk indiscriminately about food and diet, whereas in fact we should distinguish between them. The food we eat, our diet, provides our body with the nutrients it needs to function properly: fats, carbohydrates, proteins, minerals, vitamins, trace elements, antioxidant factors etc. We therefore need enough quality food in sufficient quantity. We know all too well the problems caused by a lack of nutrition for the body.But food is much more than that. Researchers have quantified the relationship between food and diet. According to them, our diet does not represent more than 30% of our food. And what is our food? The food we eat is what we take from outside that will bring physical nutrients to the body. On the other hand, food as nourishment is everything we receive from the outside, in the true sense of the word, which nourishes our being. The problem is that we bring nourishment back to food, because we only consider ourselves in our bodily form, as a body. The bankruptcy of religion that has led to a bankruptcy of spirituality means that here in Europe we live in a secular society that prohibits all forms of spirituality. And human beings do not only have physical needs.For me, it is obvious that we are more than a body, so we have other needs. Today, our way of life does not take into account the fundamental and vital needs of the human being, not to mention spiritual needs and our relationships with others, for example.We constantly talk about relationships on Facebook, but it’s making fun of the world. Relationships are not created by typing on a keyboard! Relationships are concrete and tangible, where you touch the other person, you have them in front of you, you look into their eyes, you hear the sound of their voice, you feel the warmth of their body, and all the energy they give off. That’s a relationship! A relationship is not just about sending each other a little text message from time to time. Our being is not adequately nourished by that type of exchange. As our vital needs are not met, we desperately seek to meet them, and since the most accessible thing is food, we compensate for all the emptiness in our life by eating.<img src="https://cdn-prod-static.heartfulness.org/choosing_life3_3f8e9aadab.jpg?updated_at=2023-04-05T05:43:42.273Z" alt="choosing-life3">This means that we end up with obese bodies desperately in search of food. It’s like saying, “For my body to work properly, I need to eat apples,” and in front of you there’s a field full of fruit, but not apples. You then test all the fruit to discover that they are not apples. You go on eating but you never find your apple, you never find exactly what nourishes you and satisfies your hunger. So you become obese eating all the other fruits while still starving.It is one of the characteristics of our time – physically obese and spiritually hungry. Inside, we are hollow, we are desperate. For me, despair in our societies is the greatest. We are trying to compensate, but the good news is that we’ll never make it. We can eat, eat, eat, and we will continue to remain hungry. Then, one day, in weary desperation, we may say to ourselves, “Okay, I want to find a food source that satisfies me.” This is the real spiritual process; searching for true food, the bread of life, the bread that gives life.And in this process of revering life, of feeling wonder at the <a href="https://heartfulness.org/magazine/Remembering-wholeness" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">beauty of life</a>, I too went in search of life, to find this food and stop being a hungry person who is never full. It is one of the wonders I have discovered.Q: For you, what is the best way to fill this void?It’s a full-body dive inside. Christian spirituality is often associated with religion, and I can testify from my own experience that one can live a true Christian spirituality without being religious. In everything I read, including the Bible, I see that the truth, life, God … everything is within us.And since it’s within us, we have to dive inside. I want to meet this life, meet this presence, because when I meet it, I have direct experience. And the direct experience does not need religious dogma or ceremony; it is pure. That’s what I am looking for and that’s what I encourage you to do. Dive inside.&nbsp;<hr>&nbsp;<h5 style="text-align:center;">And since it’s within us, we have to dive inside. I want to meet this life, meet this presence, because when I meet it, I have direct experience. That’s what I am looking for and that’s what I encourage you to do. Dive inside.</h5>&nbsp;<hr>&nbsp;To come back to the Bible, which I often quote, I have several friends who have been interested in the Hebrew version, because Hebrew is very refined in terms of subtleties. And when Abraham, the great patriarch of all monotheistic religions, receives God’s message, God says to him, “Lekh lekha” (pronounce ler lera), which means in Hebrew, “Turn inwards. Go inside yourself.” Isn’t that what all oriental meditative practices offer?So why oppose spiritual practices when the religious texts say to go inside yourself? Go to life. And the moment you meet life, that day you are enlightened. Then there is no more religion, no more culture, no more separation. You love your neighbor as yourself; you experience the direct encounter with the other, with the living. This is what I aspire to, because divisions are sources of discord, violence and separation.To be continued. In the third part of this interview, Thierry Casasnovas speaks about his experience of fasting and the practical aspects of fasting.<hr><h4 style="text-align:center;">Interviewed by&nbsp;CELINE FRÉSARD</h4><hr>

Choosing life - part 2

<h4>
 In part 3 of this interview,
 THIERRY CASASNOVAS continues his
 advocacy for life. He shares his own journey with
 CELINE FRÉSARD, and the role of
 fasting in the healing process.
 </h4>
 
 Q: Can we move to a subject that is very dear to you – fasting? Can
 you tell us about your experience of fasting and its role in the
 body’s regeneration process?
 
 
 TC: In fact, this topic is a
 continuation of what we have just been speaking about, because the
 approach I propose is:
 
 
 1. Realization of life itself 
 2. Observation of life itself 
 3. Worship of life in itself
 
 
 We discover it, we understand it, and we love it.
 
 
 Now, you don’t love something without respecting its needs. So you start
 honoring and serving life, which means respecting the vital needs of
 your body. And in this context, fasting is magnificent.
 
 
 Fasting is a complete turn around from modern, secular science, which
 asks us to do this analysis, take this remedy, have this operation, and
 so on. In fasting, we sweep it all away. It’s science for dummies,
 healing for dummies. There is nothing to understand, nothing to buy,
 nothing to do. You do nothing and let it all happen.
 
 
 Fasting is an experience in which you realize that your outwardly
 oriented hyperactivity deprives you of all the life that is within
 yourself. Fasting is doing nothing on the external physical level.
 
 
 Normally, fasting means abstaining from food, sometimes even abstaining
 from liquid, abstaining from frenetic activity, and remaining quietly at
 rest. The law of homeostasis tells us that any living system returns
 spontaneously to a state of equilibrium, and it returns to balance all
 the more spontaneously if we are at rest. Fasting is the experience of
 rest, therefore the optimal experience of the development of life
 itself. It is an extraordinary moment when you can drop everything and
 observe life spreading inside yourself. You have nothing to do, so you
 remain quiet, and all of a sudden the fire that was dying out in you
 grows and strengthens. Imagine that possibility, if each of us realized
 it!
 
 <hr />
 <h5 style="text-align: center">
 Fasting is an experience in which you realize 
 that your outwardly oriented hyperactivity 
 deprives you of all the life that is within yourself.
 </h5>
 
 
 We start with a lot of fire, we have this very important flame, we are
 young and we have energy. Then as life progresses, the flame begins to
 decline. At some point, we open our eyes and ‘Ooh la la’ we see that it
 has really diminished. So we stop, let it grow again, and return to
 life. Can you imagine what a healthy lifestyle that is? It is beautiful.
 Every time you see your flame go down slightly, you know what you have
 to do. Stop. Fasting is a perfect way to achieve this. It is the fastest
 way to let life flow through you when you need it.
 
 
 But a lot happens in the body. Things we don’t understand. It is
 necessary to simply cross them with the conviction and certainty that
 everything that happens during fasting goes in one direction only –
 towards life. Everything that happens is good. Absolutely nothing can
 happen in our body that does not go in the direction of life. It’s
 impossible because life is moving towards life.
 
 
 So fasting is the maximum experience of deploying the life force in
 oneself. Moreover, in this process of introspection, there is a physical
 and a spiritual dimension. It comes back to Lekh lekha. In fasting, even
 on the spiritual level, what must happen happens.
 
 
 Q: You present fasting as a return to life, but there are certain
 uncomfortable stages and moments when you feel weak, when you question
 yourself. It can create fear and anxiety. Can you explain to us what’s
 going on?
 
 
 TC: I work from the conviction that
 the fasting process is moving towards life. Let’s take a concrete
 example: this summer I injured myself. I received a heavy load on my leg
 that cut my skin right down to the tendon. Today my skin has
 reconstituted itself. It is all pink. This I call life. But to get
 there, I had to go through the healing process, with a phase where the
 scar was nasty and painful; it was a necessary step.
 
 
 <img
 class="has-img-center lazyload w-100 h-auto"
 src="https://cdn-prod-static.heartfulness.org/fasting2_a6769fd36e.jpg?updated_at=2023-04-05T08:16:31.594Z"
 alt="fasting2"
 />
 
 
 Life goes towards life, and to achieve this it uses its own paths of
 regeneration. Sometimes we understand them, sometimes we don’t. It is
 important to study them, because there is indeed no reason to suffer
 just for the sake of suffering, and we can learn to relieve the body to
 the maximum in order to facilitate this path. But it is still necessary
 to go through the process.
 
 
 For example, when I hurt my leg and the wound was purulent, and not at
 all pretty, if I had opened the wound so as not to see that, I would
 have blocked the repair process from happening naturally. I supported my
 body by putting Aloe vera on the wound to soften and accelerate healing,
 and honey because it is a wonderful adjuvant for healing, but I could
 not prevent the wound stage. We can relieve and support healing, and we
 can promote the cleansing of the body, because it is important to help
 it remove the waste it has accumulated, but there will be some
 uncomfortable moments.
 
 
 Imagine you are driving on the highway and your fuel gauge lights up.
 You have two options. First, you can take a hammer and destroy the
 dashboard so that you no longer see the fuel gauge. The equivalent is
 often done when the body shows symptoms: we go to the doctor and come
 out with products that treat symptoms, without solving the underlying
 problem, which seems to be of no interest to anyone. We suppress the
 body’s signals: if we have inflammation, we take anti-inflammatory
 drugs; if we have a fever, we take medicine to reduce the fever; if we
 have pain, we take a painkiller. It is not complicated to cut off the
 functioning of the nervous system to eliminate pain, but did we solve
 the underlying problem that caused the pain?
 
 
 In the second option, you see your gauge light up, you’re in a hurry,
 you really don’t want to stop because it’s raining and cold, but you
 stop anyway to refuel. The healing process is similar – we stop and
 refuel. It’s not always unpleasant, but it can be. The body has a lot of
 waste to dispose of, so it shows symptoms. And we have learned to run
 away from the symptoms all our lives.
 
 
 Discomfort or pain is a normal signal from the living that indicates we
 have reached our limit. We have to slow down. Sometimes we are confused
 by what happens in the body during the cleaning and regenerative
 processes, but whatever happens, the only thing to remember is that it
 goes in the direction of life. This is the nature of the living. At the
 beginning we need to repeat it to ourselves: “The body is moving towards
 life.” I try to support, help and accompany people through the process,
 especially when it is unpleasant, to make it easier.
 
 
 Q: So if we can get through the inconvenience of cleaning, what we
 call detoxification, we get to something else.
 
 
 TC: Yes. This is what I call
 crossing the veil. The first is the fear of symptoms. This is what we
 are hooked on in today’s medicine. We are so afraid to feel, to be
 sensitive, and so afraid to suffer even a little, so as soon as we see a
 symptom approaching we run to the doctor and take medicine. In doing so,
 we may take a step back and not cross the veil. At some point, however,
 we have to cross it. And this requires conviction, commitment,
 determination, trust and tranquility. And this tranquility and
 conviction can only be based on one thing – the knowledge of the living.
 We can only cross the veil when we know why we are crossing it. Often
 it’s not much, though we make a big deal out of it.
 
 
 For example, if you have a liver problem and you fast, the liver will
 produce bile when it cleans itself, and you will probably vomit it up.
 One of my associates had hepatitis B that spoiled his life, and he had
 been in treatment for many years. While fasting, he vomited for three
 days, but it wasn’t a disaster because after those three days his liver
 was healed.
 
 
 So turning around every time a symptom appears is not living. We stay in
 a warm hell, while we are asked to go through that mirror and access
 life. Life awaits us on the other side, it awaits us in complete
 confidence in its power – a confidence that allows us to cross the
 illusion of symptoms and truly begin to live.
 
 To be continued
 <hr />
 <h4 style="text-align: center">Interviewed by CELINE FRÉSARD</h4>
 <hr />

Choosing life - part 3

<h4>
 In the final part of this interview,
 THIERRY CASASNOVAS continues his
 advocacy for life. He shares his own journey with
 CELINE FRÉSARD, and the role of
 fasting in the healing process.
 </h4>
 
 <img
 class="img-float-right has-img-center-in-mobile lazyload"
 src="https://cdn-prod-static.heartfulness.org/THIERRY_CASASNOVAS_1_12c98e45f7.jpg?updated_at=2023-04-05T12:19:34.028Z"
 alt="THIERRY-CASASNOVAS" />Q: To help us overcome the fears you mentioned earlier, that can be
 generated in us by certain reactions in our bodies, could you tell us
 about the stages of fasting and the main symptoms that can
 occur?
 
 
 TC: The first principle is: by
 fasting one becomes a fasting specialist. That is, the knowledge of
 fasting comes through experience, gradually recognizing symptomatic
 expressions.
 
 
 The second principle is: the limit of what is acceptable is set by the
 person for themself.
 
 
 The good news is that once the body is cleansed, the reactions stop. For
 example, I am used to fasting, so I can do it for days while continuing
 my activities, and no one will realize that I am operating without water
 and food. I don’t have any painful manifestations like joint pain,
 because the cleaning work has already been done.
 
 
 But let’s say you are fasting for the first time. You may feel tired,
 have a headache, a rash of pimples, or other symptoms. At some point you
 may say to yourself, “No, this is too much, I’m stopping.” You will
 resume your normal food intake but feel bad that you couldn’t continue.
 In fact, stopping is not so bad, because the next time you will go a
 little further. This is how the knowledge is gradually built. For me,
 the key words are listening, feeling and progressiveness.
 
 
 There is no problem in stopping a fast because you consider the symptoms
 to be too severe. When you get back to it, your body will immediately
 take you back to where you stopped. It tells you: “You stopped and I’ll
 take you back.” It will put you back in front of the same kinds of
 symptoms until you have gone through the fear stage, and until you have
 given your body enough time to clean itself up. So the process will be
 done, and progressiveness, listening, gentleness, kindness are the keys.
 
 
 Q: Can you tell us about some physiological processes associated with
 fasting, such as hormesis, autophagy, and the important brain protein,
 Brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF)?
 
 
 TC: The law of hormesis is the
 second magnificent law of life. I told you about the first, the law of
 homeostasis, which says that any system spontaneously returns to a state
 of equilibrium and will return to it all the more spontaneously if it is
 placed in a state of rest.
 
 
 The law of hormesis defines what rest is. It is the proper use of the
 organism, in other words, when we do not exceed our body’s ability to
 adapt to any situation. It is a totally individual factor, because the
 upper limit is different for everyone, and this happens in every area of
 our lives. The law of hormesis tells us: every time we utilize our body
 without exceeding the adaptive capacity of the individual, the body
 improves its functioning. Rest is not about leaving your body alone in a
 dusty corner, it is about utilizing it within the limits of its adaptive
 capacity. And the law of hormesis tells us that when we extend our body
 and being as a whole to the limit of what we can tolerate, this is where
 the gain will be maximum. In these situations, BDNF, which promotes the
 growth of neural tissue, is released in response to eustress. Overall it
 makes you smarter and livelier, by increasing neural pathways.
 
 
 <img
 class="has-img-center lazyload w-100 h-auto"
 src="https://cdn-prod-static.heartfulness.org/choosinglife4_2_643aa7a9bf.jpeg?updated_at=2023-04-05T12:20:47.624Z"
 alt="choosinglife4-2"
 />
 
 
 We are therefore designed to be regularly subjected to adaptive demands,
 to stresses that stimulate our body’s adaptive capacity. The problem
 comes in today’s society, in which we find ourselves in situations that
 are beyond our ability to adapt. We are often in situations of chronic
 anxiety, and when we return home we have only one desire, to sink into
 absolute comfort, and that is atrophy. The right measure is neither in
 going beyond our limits or into atrophy, but in between, with adapted
 challenges that push us to the limit of our adaptive capacity without
 defeating us. This is the law of hormesis that guides any improvement in
 our functioning. And it is super important.
 
 
 This is reflected physically and morally. If not challenged, our muscles
 atrophy. It is automatic. If not challenged regularly in other ways
 also, within our limits, we automatically regress.
 
 
 Q: What about autophagy?
 
 
 TC: Autophagy is one of the wonders
 of fasting that illustrates the laws of homeostasis and hormesis. When
 we stop eating, healthy body tissues feed at the expense of degenerative
 tissues. In times of food scarcity, the healthiest parts of us will feed
 and let the most degenerate parts starve to death. It is a regulatory
 process in which what is not functional will disappear, allowing for
 renewal. Even if a part of us dies, the constant cell renewal will
 create new cells and tissues that will be healthy. So the process of
 autophagy is the normal renewal of the organism, where the healthy feeds
 at the expense of the unhealthy. It is the evacuation of waste, the
 elimination, renewal and permanent rejuvenation of the organism that
 takes place particularly during periods of rest and fasting. This is
 when autophagy is at its peak.
 
 
 Q: The body gets rid of its own toxins, waste and tumors?
 
 
 TC: Exactly. Waste is what cannot be
 used by the body, so it will be disposed of by the body. On the other
 hand, the body feeds on its fats and, since food resources are limited
 while we are fasting, the energy from these fats will be directed to the
 healthiest cells so that they replicate themselves, and the unhealthy
 cells will simply die.
 
 
 Q: So should we wait until we are sick before we start fasting?
 
 
 TC: As I understand it, disease is
 the signal that we have overtaken the body’s adaptive mechanisms. So the
 intelligent solution would be to feed the adaptive systems so that we do
 not get sick.
 
 
 Unfortunately, for many of us, our culture does not invite us to
 consider our lifestyle in this way. Sometimes we have to fall sick in
 order to change our habits. It doesn’t have to be this way, but it is
 often a powerful motivation.
 
 
 However, supporting a healthy lifestyle can begin at an early age, and I
 am very happy when parents contact me and tell me that they have
 understood the importance of feeding their children well.
 
 
 Q: You mean everyone can fast, including children and the
 elderly?
 
 
 TC: Anyone can fast, as long as it
 is freely chosen; otherwise it is food deprivation and abuse. Children
 often spontaneously feel the need, especially when they are sick, so you
 can tell them, “Look, there’s a chance you’re not hungry and that’s
 normal. This is what’s going on in your body, so it is not the time to
 eat.” This will give them a knowledge that will accompany them
 throughout their life – to listen to their bodies’ natural needs.
 
 
 The main thing is to listen to yourself and respect yourself. When it
 gets too difficult, just stop. It is all about feeling. For some it will
 be a few hours and for others a few weeks. It depends on the person. The
 best rule to make sure you don’t make mistakes is to go slowly and
 gradually. If you can’t swim, you don’t jump into a big pool without a
 float, or you risk drowning. You start by going into the small pool
 where you can touch the bottom, and then you experiment slowly. With
 fasting it’s the same. If you’ve never fasted, start by delaying the
 first meal. For example, you may wait one hour before eating breakfast,
 then another, and eventually you end up not eating until noon. You have
 done what is called an intermittent fast and that is perfect.
 
 
 Gradually, you will delay lunch and make only one meal a day. And the
 day you feel really comfortable with that, you’ll be fasting till the
 evening and you’ll have done 24 hours of fasting. This is how, by
 progressing slowly, you get to know your body with peace of mind, to
 discover its reactions, how it works, and then you are a winner.
 
 
 At this point you have experience, and you have built knowledge that no
 longer depends on an external authority but on what is happening inside.
 You are free. You feel a total freedom, because you have met life.
 
 <hr />
 <h4 style="text-align: center">Interviewed by CELINE FRÉSARD</h4>
 <hr />

Choosing life - part 4

Thom is a founder and Director of Education for The New York Center for Nonviolent Communication. He is the author of The Compassion Book, founder of The Compassion Project, and the author of Shifting Toward Compassion and 64 Days for Peace.



Thom-Bond.jpg

Thom Bond

The universal language of life

<h4>
 THOM BOND is a thought leader, peace
 educator,
 author, and mediation consultant who is best known for “The Compassion Course.” He’s also the founder
 and
 Director of Education for the New York Center for Nonviolent Communication (NVC). In part 2 of this
 interview,
 he talks with ELIZABETH DENLEY about his personal experience with NVC, and the associated learning
 curve.
</h4>
<hr class="vertical-space1">



Q: Can you talk about your journey with NVC? Is it ongoing? Is
 there an unfolding sense of wonder? Or is it simply a framework? How do you see this whole
 process?



TB: When we first start the process of integration, we
 make visitations into the parallel universe. Then, if somehow we can create a new path by practicing over and
 over
 and over again, we start seeing a new set of things out there. As one of my students said, it changed her
 relationship with her husband, her cat, and her plants. I was just like, “Yes, yes, yes! You’ve got it right!”




It’s a never-ending story, a never-ending process. It’s always about, “What else can I learn about life today? What
 else can I experience that’s happening to me in a life-connected way?” And, when I live in a life-connected way
 –
 which means I see the divine energy of life in you – that’s what I’m going to relate to: not the behaviors but
 the
 beautiful life that’s in you. It’s not easy, but over time we really start to see beyond the surface.



So, you could yell at me, “Thom, you’re a loudmouth. You just love to hear yourself talk. You’re driving me
 nuts.” Instead of trying to defend myself, I could say, “Wow, you’re hurting right now. You’re in pain. I’m
 hearing that. I can only imagine it’s really frustrating for you right now to be here with me. You’d love
 something
 to be different.” If I buy into the outer judgment, then I’m going to say, “No I’m not! What about you?” …
 and
 here we go, right?



There’s a way to break that cycle. First is to empathize with myself enough to know what I want in life. Even in the
 moments when somebody is coming at me I still know what I want. Second, I know how to get through that process:
 we
 start with what I call lifting light weights. Don’t work with devastation; work with annoyance, and work your
 way up
 to devastation.



<hr class="vertical-space1">



<figure><img decoding="async" width="625" height="800" alt="" class="lazyload has-img-center"
 src="https://cdn-prod-static.heartfulness.org/The_Beautiful_Life2_37827e343a.jpg?updated_at=2023-04-12T06:07:44.430Z">
</figure>




<hr class="vertical-space1">



Going way back to before I met Marshall Rosenberg, if I think about how many feelings I had then, I would say two –
 good and bad. Then I picked up his list of feelings, and it blew my mind. I realized, “Wow! I can have such a
 rich
 experience if I’m willing to see it. And somebody has given me words for it.” I love that, by the way. I really
 studied those words, because they were so helpful. Imagine, there’s a feeling called “nettled” versus just
 “pissed
 off” or “not happy.”



So, we start to look at the nuances of what we feel, and when we express them we also start to notice them in others,
 and we ask people about how they are feeling. What are we doing? Well, we’re inviting a life-connected
 relationship
 in that moment. That’s the process.



I have noticed that it actually goes in stages. I’ve watched this for over two decades now and I’m no different than
 any other human. First I found out NVC existed, which was really important (I prefer to call it NBR – Needs
 Based
 Relating – but let’s call it NVC here). Before that, I’d never heard of it. I didn’t know what it was or what it
 did. That was the starting point. Somebody had to tell me about it.



That’s why we constantly do intros, very carefully. The intros are the hardest trainings. The advanced trainings take
 care of themselves. It’s that beginning where we’re going to make the first turn off the superhighway of
 judgment
 and cultural bent, and say, “Well, there is this little path over here, let me show it to you. ”That’s how it
 starts.



Then, when we know NVC exists, we say, “Okay, needs; I think I know what needs are. I get it. I think I know what
 feelings are. I can even name them.” We start to see them and name them.



<hr class="vertical-space1">



<hr>



<h4 class="has-text-align-center">I want to help people get
 into relationship with their feelings and needs, so that they move past that point of
 thinking that
 “feelings are a bad idea, and needs mean I’m selfish,” and find out that actually it’s a way
 to live
 life.</h4>



<hr>



<hr class="vertical-space1">



Then comes the next part, where it’s our habitual self up against this incredibly brand-new conscious self. This lays
 the groundwork for our transformation.



So what is it I want to do as a trainer? Well, I want to help people get into relationship with their feelings and
 needs, so that they move past that point of thinking that “feelings are a bad idea, and needs mean I’m selfish,
 ”and
 find out that actually it’s a way to live life. It’s an awareness that can inform them so well that they can
 simply
 transcend those outer layers of conflict, the judgment of right/wrong thinking, should/shouldn’t thinking. NVC
 goes
 right past it.



As trainers, we have to be good at it. I’m very rigorous as a trainer. I will never say this is easy. I will never
 tell you that you’re doing something you are not. It’s so important for us to do this well so that we can
 sustain
 the practice.



It’s the relationship part that really gets a lot of us. We start a relationship and we develop that relationship.
 The next part is: “Okay, now that I have this relationship with needs, what does that mean for me?” Well, it
 means
 that I can be empathic. And if I can be empathic, that means I have my hands on the buttons and levers of
 compassion. And now I have some say in how I’m going to be in the world, and I can really start living out my
 values.



<hr class="vertical-space1">




<figure><img decoding="async" width="625" height="800" alt="" class="lazyload has-img-center"
 src="https://cdn-prod-static.heartfulness.org/The_Beautiful_Life3_6c61170e0e.jpg?updated_at=2023-04-12T06:32:20.365Z">
</figure>




<hr class="vertical-space1">



Q: That was just lovely. You just defined the process so simply,
 thank you. Any last things you want to add?



TB: Well, yes, thank you. You guys have been great
 partners for us in the past. We reopened the registration for you two years ago, because somebody at
 Heartfulness
 found out about The Compassion Course the day after we closed the registration. So we re-opened it, and quite a
 few
 folks came.



I haven’t found anything that is not compatible with it. I work with rabbis, priests, ministers, etc., and everyone
 says, “We want to have a more compassionate self.” And we have the skill set to actually be it.



One thing I would add is that I don’t believe this comes easy, but it does happen if you stay with it, which is why
 my course is one year. In fact, it’s perpetual, because the day one course stops, the next day a new one starts.
 Some people take the course every year, so it’s a pretty long-term prospect.



<hr class="vertical-space1">




<figure><img decoding="async" width="625" height="730" alt="" class="lazyload has-img-center"
 src="https://cdn-prod-static.heartfulness.org/The_Beautiful_Life4_761a3edde1.jpg?updated_at=2023-04-12T06:33:52.580Z">
</figure>




<hr class="vertical-space1">



Marshall asked me, “Can we teach this without the language model please? Can we teach this as awareness, as
 consciousness?” That has been my goal. Then it stays with us. We don’t have to memorize it. We live it. It’s
 real,
 it’s part of us. It’s not something we do; it’s who we are. And that’s way harder than memorizing observations,
 feelings, needs, and requests. The thing is, it works.



I worry for NVC because I think some people oversimplify it. They don’t perhaps know how to teach it at an advanced
 level and so they leave people short of the line. So if anyone out there thinks they have studied NVC and it
 hasn’t
 worked, maybe it wasn’t NVC that they were actually being taught, because it works when we teach it carefully.




<hr>



<hr class="vertical-space1">



<h4 class="has-text-align-center">It’s an awareness that can
 inform them so well that they can simply transcend those outer layers of conflict,
 the judgment of
 right/wrong thinking, should/shouldn’t thinking. NVC goes right past it.</h4>



<hr>



<hr class="vertical-space1">



Q: Thank you so much, Thom.



TB: Cool. Today is a wonderful day. Last week, the
 largest publisher in Germany published The Compassion Book in German. So the course is now in 15
 languages,
 and the book is in 3. It’s a process, and it’s just going to keep going I hope.



Q: And this magazine goes out across about 160 countries, so
 hopefully it will also generate more interest.



TB: Thank you.



Q: Wonderful, and lovely to meet you.



<hr class="vertical-space1">

The beautiful life that’s in you

Thomas is a physicist at the Institute for Advanced Sustainability Studies, Potsdam, Germany. He is a researcher and a bridge builder, helping experts and change-makers from all sectors of society to come together to explore the topic of sustainability, listen to each other, and develop solutions.



Thomas-Bruhn.jpg

Thomas Bruhn

<h4>THOMAS BRUHN is a physicist at the Institute for Advanced Sustainability Studies, Potsdam, Germany. He is a researcher and bridge builder, helping experts and change-makers from all sectors of society to come together to explore the topic of sustainability, listen to each other, and develop solutions.</h4><h4>In part 1 of his conversation with JUDITH NELSON at the Spirit of Humanity Forum in Reykjavik, Iceland, he talks about the walking holiday he had after finishing his studies, and how it informed his perspectives on nature and sustainability.</h4><hr>Q: I was intrigued by some of the content of your session this morning, particularly when you talked about your walk, where you went from a mindset of “think, think, think” and “work, work, work” to something very different. Can you explain more?TB: That transformation came after I completed my diploma thesis. It was an intense phase of working, where I had little space for myself. Originally, I had huge plans after my studies like, “I’ll go to the Himalayas, or the Rocky Mountains, or the Andes,” but I didn’t have time to organize anything. I ended up packing a very small bag and started to walk in Germany. I only had a plan for the first three days, because there was a place I had been in my youth with my parents, and I thought, “That’s a nice place to start.” There is a place in the very south of Germany and I had intense memories of that place. I thought I would like to end up there.&nbsp;When I started walking, I realized how long it took for me to calm down, certainly a whole week. All sorts of things came to mind – music, songs, inner voices. I thought of my diploma thesis. Was there something I had done wrong? Because I was walking and I was on my own, I could observe and allow everything to be as silly as it seemed.&nbsp;<hr><img src="https://cdn-prod-static.heartfulness.org/A_sustainable_mindset2_f26c785097.jpg" alt="">&nbsp;<hr>I wrote everything down in a diary, but the real beauty was the experience of transformation throughout that journey. I learned to let go of planning and I enjoyed that so much. In fact, it was like a pilgrimage. The less I planned, the more I was surprised at what happened. There were such beautiful encounters. Each of them was very small and insignificant.Along that road, there was one thing that everybody told me: “Oh, you must see that particular place.” But that was the least touching experience of the whole journey because it was loaded with expectation and planning. Everything that happened when I let go of planning was such a blissful experience. So, it’s the best type of holiday I have had!&nbsp;<hr><img src="https://cdn-prod-static.heartfulness.org/A_sustainable_mindset3_0481ee2a7a.jpg" alt="">&nbsp;<hr> &nbsp;&nbsp;<hr><h4>Everything that happened&nbsp; when I let go of planning&nbsp; was such a blissful experience.</h4>&nbsp;<hr> &nbsp;&nbsp;<hr>I didn’t take a tent with me, so I really didn’t know where I would sleep. Maybe everything would be occupied, maybe I would have to hitch-hike a little bit. Right after that pilgrimage, I met my wife. For years, I told her about this kind of traveling, and she said, “Yeah, sounds nice, but I don’t know, especially not knowing where I’m going to sleep.” Five years later, we did a similar trip together. Doing it as a couple was such a profound experience of letting go and trusting whatever comes up. So that’s the story of that experience. [Laughs]Q: You also talked about needing a lot less than we think we do. Can you expand on that?TB: Yes. I was carrying so little, but by the end of my travels I realized there was so much I took with me that I didn’t need. Even food. I needed less and less food during the trip. You might expect that hiking is intense for the body, so you would need a lot of food, but no, it was less and less.&nbsp;By the end, I didn’t even need any kind of impulses from the surrounding environment. It was not like I was taking a specific path to have perfect experiences. It was just, “Okay, I’m on the road, walking, and that satisfies everything I need.”&nbsp;Because I hadn’t had that experience before, I didn’t know whether I’d return after a week, or my mind might go crazy without the usual needs – distractions or calling people. In the first week I had my phone with me and I did call quite a few people just to connect, or just to let my parents know that I was okay. Even all that communication dissolved throughout the travel. That was very beautiful as well.<hr><img src="https://cdn-prod-static.heartfulness.org/A_sustainable_mindset4_8821ab4181.jpg" alt="">&nbsp;<hr><hr><h4>I feel that in any moment&nbsp; I’m a human being,&nbsp; I’m an organism,&nbsp; I am Nature in myself.</h4>&nbsp;<hr> &nbsp;&nbsp;<hr>Q:&nbsp; The other very interesting thing in your talk was your positivity and your sense of not being separate from Nature. Could you explain a bit more?TB: That’s a weird paradox within myself. On the one hand, I don’t feel disconnected from Nature, but I grew up in an industrialized society and I work in a concrete building, and so forth. So, I feel I’m not as connected with Nature all the time as I am when I’m walking through a forest. At the same time, I feel that in any moment I’m a human being, I’m an organism, I&nbsp;am&nbsp;Nature in myself. I often wonder if the experience of “I am Nature” is not so much about the environment that I’m in as it is about the Nature that I experience in my own being, actions, and in my relationships with people and with everything around me. So, I can be alive in any context, you could say.&nbsp; &nbsp;A relationship with Nature, for me, doesn’t necessarily mean trying to find the perfect, pristine, non-human Nature out there and thinking, “Now I’m in Nature.” No,&nbsp;I am&nbsp;Nature in any moment … learning to be Nature.<hr>To be continued.We thank our partner, the Spirit of Humanity Forum, for facilitating this interview.&nbsp;<hr> &nbsp;&nbsp;<hr><h4>Illustrations by ANANYA PATEL</h4>&nbsp;<hr>

A sustainable mindset

<h4>THOMAS BRUHN is a physicist at the Institute for Advanced Sustainability Studies, Potsdam, Germany. He is a researcher and a bridge builder, helping experts and change-makers from all sectors of society to come together to explore the topic of sustainability, listen to each other, and develop solutions.</h4><h4>In part 2 of his conversation with JUDITH NELSON at the Spirit of Humanity Forum in Reykjavik, Iceland, Thomas talks about embracing mortality, finding a purpose, defining our role in the world, and the shift humanity is living through.</h4><hr>Q: In the Forum, you touched upon having no fear of death. You talked about the way the world is going, making a lot of people quite frightened. Can you tell us about that?TB: That’s a profound topic. When I was nineteen, I did my civil service in a home for the elderly, where people spent the last months of their lives. I really connected with people there. My grandmother died when I was nine years old, but at nineteen I was better able to engage with old people.Witnessing the final stages of their lives influenced me a lot. What was important for them? What did they reflect upon? Some had a hard time letting go because of unresolved relationships, or some trauma they hadn’t worked through. This influenced my own reflection about what kind of life I wanted to live.&nbsp;At nineteen, you’re busy finding out how awesome life is,&nbsp;but it was also important for me to embrace and welcome mortality. I can’t say that I’m not afraid of death. I want to experience life, and there is so much I haven’t yet lived. At the same time I find comfort in the notion that this existence is finite and impermanent. I can’t do anything about it anyway.&nbsp;The question for me is, “What is the purpose of my time here, and how should it be fulfilled?” That gives me a good orientation and makes me take things less seriously. “What is my contribution? What feels most meaningful?”&nbsp;Some people have a hedonistic attitude like, “I’m going to die anyway, so let’s have a party as long as it lasts.” That’s not the kind of life I want, but it does help me to be aware it’s finite.&nbsp;My work is dedicated to sustainability, and to more livable ways of life. My life is my responsibility, and if I have lived the wrong life when I leave this world, it’s only myself that I’m hurting. I’m also experiencing what’s happening in the rest of the world, and there’s so much suffering and destruction.Loss of biodiversity is de facto a degradation of the aliveness in this world. It is not easy to say I’m not afraid, because so much is beyond me. I love this world; it’s beautiful. I love humans, and I also love what we can contribute to this world. It’s more difficult to come to terms with the current crisis we’re experiencing as a globalized civilisation.&nbsp;<hr><img src="https://cdn-prod-static.heartfulness.org/Life_Death_Fear_pupose1_14b2189385.jpg?updated_at=2023-04-11T17:53:59.104Z" alt="">&nbsp;<hr>Q: Do you have any idea of a way forward through that? I know it’s a big question, but what can you contribute going forward? And how do you sustain yourself through all of this?&nbsp;TB: Ten years ago, my mind was on the big abstract topics like climate change, the technologies to mitigate climate change, global warming, CO2 emissions, and so forth. I still see a lot of value in those developments, but I also realize that the world I experience is a manifestation of a certain culture, and this culture is a manifestation of a certain understanding of being human. How do I define what it means to be human? How does that drive me to consume my surroundings, and to sustain my own aliveness? That is a paradox in itself!&nbsp;In the book Ishmael, Daniel Quinn writes, “You are captives of a civilizational system that more or less compels you to go on destroying the world in order to live.”This is a very profound refection for me. How do we define life if it is at the expense of everything around us, even at the expense of ourselves?&nbsp;In the last ten years, I’ve gone through a shift in what I see as the next steps, and what my contribution can be. I see a different paradigm and a different culture emerging. Everywhere, there are young people and others who feel that our dominant culture doesn’t provide a meaningful life. They are like small islands where different modes of living are practiced. Sometimes I wish I could live the life I experience in these islands, but I cannot. Maybe I am just too much a child of this civilization that is not in harmony.My contribution is to connect these many islands, because they are often isolated and even suppressed. I enjoy connecting these marginalized change-agents, to give them a certain visibility, to show there is a potential for a different type of human life emerging, while the old one is reaching its limits. That’s the role in which I see myself.When I was fifteen, there was a popular game: “If you were a tool, what type of tool would you be?” I remember saying “a watering can.” That’s still how I feel twenty years later [Laughs]. I want to be a watering can for the plans I see growing as seeds in the middle of concrete environments. I feel like I’m standing in the middle, keeping a crack open so that something can grow, but I also feel my own limitations because I embody so much of the old paradigm. It’s a challenge for me to let go of the way I have grown up. Does that make sense?<hr><hr><h4>I want to be a watering can for the plans&nbsp; I see growing as seeds in the middle of concrete environments. I feel like I’m standing in the middle,&nbsp; keeping a crack open so that something can grow.</h4><hr><hr>Every time I speak about it, I realize it’s quite a tension I’m sitting in, but somehow I feel that the tension is exactly my role. It’s the right thing for me to be in.&nbsp;Q: Almost like a bridge, perhaps?TB: Yes, like a bridge or a gatekeeper.Q: Do you do any practice to sustain your inner world?TB: Yes and no. There are many practices I find valuable. I have come into contact with different approaches since I was fifteen, but they never became part of my everyday life. Over the past couple of years,&nbsp;I have been practicing Mindfulness and Compassion Meditation, but not like some people do. You could say it’s a moment-by-moment practice for me just to stay conscious of, “Am I the being I want to be? How purposeful am I being? How present am I?”&nbsp;I don’t want to push that into a corner of meditation and then go back to my work. When I have written thirty emails in a row, I sometimes notice I’m not writing as compassionately as I did in the beginning. Am I sensitizing myself to the quality I bring to those relationships and to those encounters?Sometimes it is playing the piano, sometimes it is hiking, or sitting in a meadow and looking at a lake. I don’t have a fixed routine, and at the same time I’m drawing on different experiences from people who have shared their practices with me. They are influencing the way I try to be present.<hr>

Life, death, fear, and purpose

Thomas Edison 

Trying Again

Thomas Fuller

Loving others

Thomas Hirt is a certified Alexander Technique teacher based in Vienna, where he offers individual sessions and workshops, and works as a school art educator. Meditation is an important part of his life, complementing his work with the Alexander Technique. He is the father of two adult daughters.

Thomas Hirt

Thomas Merton (1915&nbsp;– 1968), was an American Trappist Monk, writer, theologian, mystic, poet, social activist and scholar of comparative religion. Merton wrote more than 50 books, mostly on spirituality, social justice, and pacifism, as well as scores of essays and reviews. Among is most popular works is his bestselling autobiography, The Seven Storey Mountain. <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Seven_Storey_Mountain">T</a>His account of his spiritual journey inspired scores of World War II veterans, students, and teenagers to explore offerings of monasteries across the US.&nbsp;Merton was a proponent of interfaith understanding, exploring Eastern religions through his study of mystic practice. He is particularly known for having pioneered dialogue with prominent Asian spiritual figures, including His Holiness the Dalai Lama; Japanese writer D.T. Suzuki; Thai Buddhist monk Buddhadasa; and Vietnamese monk Thich Hat Hans. In addition, he wrote books on Zen Buddhism, Confucianism, and Taoism, &nbsp;and how Christianity is related to them.&nbsp;

Thomas Merton.webp

Thomas Merton

The goal of fasting

Our true selves

Rhythm and harmony

Peace demands...

Thomas was one of the first Heartfulness practitioners in the West, visiting Babuji in Shahjahanpur, India, in 1971, where he filmed Babuji for the first time. He has written three books, and his latest, In the Light Awakening, was released in April 2024. It documents his experiences with Babuji and his representatives, and the journey of a spiritual life. He continues to translate the Heartfulness literature into Danish.

ThomasMogenson.jpg

Thomas Mogensen

<h4>By the end of the 1960s, Westerners were traveling to visit the spiritual teacher, Babuji, in India. Among the first were the Danes, who all fell in love with Babuji and were instrumental in bringing the spiritual practices of Heartfulness to the West. One of these pioneers was THOMAS MOGENSEN, who first visited Shahjahanpur in 1971 with his wife and some friends. They filmed their conversations with Babuji, took many photos, and Thomas later wrote two books about these precious experiences. Here is a small vignette from one of his books, written with his signature humor, joy, and tenderness.</h4><hr>A large wooden table and some upright chairs occupy our dining room, situated and set aside solely for us in one of the buildings enclosing an inner kitchen courtyard in Babuji’s Shahjahanpur home. The very first time we eat our lunch there, he himself suddenly shows up.As expected from a good and polite host, he takes his seat at the end of the table. With a few words that food should be nourishing and simple he sinks into silence, looking down in front of himself in the humblest way you can imagine. As we dine, the situation gets more and more unsettling for our Danish sister, Vibe. She looks distressed from one to the other, then turns to Babuji gently saying, “It’s all right, Babuji, you don’t need to sit here with us.” Without further notice he says, “Thank you,” as polite as ever, gets up and leaves.Babuji takes his food squatting in solitude in a corner of the kitchen courtyard. His meals are served on a large stainless steel plate. Though the amount of food is not much, he often shares most of it with the cat, the only one sure to join him. Once in a while, someone, usually his granddaughter, Nini, drops by to see if he is all right. She instructs him to eat more, as she knows better than anyone else how a loss of appetite, if allowed to continue, can end up in the danger zone of his ulcer breaking out causing some real bad trouble. All such things are normally kept away from us, but after one of our lunches, Nini approaches us. Explaining how Babuji has not eaten anything for days, she asks us to please return to the veranda and speak among ourselves about food – any food, our favorite dishes. “You need not speak English,” she says, “and don’t speak to him. Just speak in your own language.”<hr><img src="https://cdn-prod-static.heartfulness.org/Babuji1_78b34add14.jpg?updated_at=2023-04-07T07:21:39.225Z" alt="Babuji1"><hr>Returning to the veranda, we find Babuji as we left him, far gone and curled up in his easy chair. We launch straight into some nice Danish talk about food, practically serving him a dish of the summer’s first new and absolutely delicious cooked potatoes with some nice cool Danish butter, a bit of salt, and a good lot of freshly chopped parsley, when his withdrawn painful condition lifts off. Surprised, he looks from one to the other as if wondering why he is suddenly taking part in such an odd conversation. Then he gets up and disappears into the kitchen courtyard. Probably the cat is already waiting there for him and his appetite to return.We ask him once about this ulcer of his, “Why don’t you just cure it yourself? You can easily do that.” He smiles and answers, “I don’t like to part with it. We have become good friends, me and my ulcer.” What’s hidden in this rather intriguing ulcer-thing, you, dear readers, are welcome to ponder over as much as he leaves us to do. Anyway, everyone eats the same simple food here. The same identical dishes day in and day out and, yes, it becomes a bit boring. Babuji senses it. “The food I serve you,” he says from his easy chair, making sure that no one from the kitchen happens to turn up, “I call ‘slaughtered vegetables.’”Now, if no one in the kitchen hears this masterly coined joke, an angel surely does, for one fine morning a local abhyasi1 appears on the scene. Round in shape and dressed all in white, we nickname him “the Baker.” He always observes the politest conduct and humbly presents his errand in quietly spoken Urdu, making Babuji lean forward, fully attentive. After a while of listening, he takes a good deep puff of the hookah, seems contented with what he is hearing, and turns to us saying, “He has invited you to take food in his house.”The very next day, the Baker returns for further instructions. Every detail of such a daring excursion must be in place, and with Babuji’s blessing the chosen evening finally arrives. In the dark streets of Shahjahanpur, our good Baker’s glowing white moon illuminated shape leads the way. Meanwhile the thought of something local, a bit of home cooked curry with some pickle on the side, grows on us. And soon we are seated at a dining table much like the one we are used to.Eagerly watching us, the Baker’s family glue to the walls around us, five foreigners alone at the table. They are so keen and polite that they hardly dare speak a word to us. And now, eager hands place the food on the table in front of us. Down to the smallest detail they are the exact same dishes we have been eating for months now! Yes, sir! This is so absurdly funny that only one person can be behind this pleasant surprise – Babuji himself. This is why he took so much time and care to instruct our loving Baker. He wanted to be dead sure that nothing unusual would happen to us, maybe even down to the dining table itself. Boy, he could serve God on a stainless steel plate, but this is what makes you love him. As soon as we complete our meal, the Baker is ready to take us back home for him to present Babuji with a detailed verbal report of the evening’s events.By the way, Babuji’s favorite dish was mushroom soup. On their travels to the West, his successor, Chariji, lured him with that when he lost his appetite. “Come on, I think they have mushroom soup for us today.”<hr>1 Meditation practitioner

Lunch, dinner, and a loving baker dressed in white

<h4>
 By the end of the 1960s, Westerners were traveling to India
 to visit Babuji. Among the first were the Danes, who all fell in love with Babuji and were instrumental in
 bringing the spiritual practices of Heartfulness to the West. One of these pioneers was THOMAS
 MOGENSEN, who first visited
 Shahjahanpur in 1971 with his wife and some friends. Here he shares the value of 50 years of
 Heartfulness.
</h4>



<hr class="vertical-space1">



In my Guide and Guru, Ram Chandra, Babuji as we called him, I found the help I needed – mentally, physically and
 spiritually. I also found a person who, in all his silent simplicity, became my friend and the very breath of my
 life, as is the current Guide, Daaji today.



<hr class="vertical-space1">




<figure><img decoding="async" width="700" height="525" alt="" class="lazyload has-img-center"
 src="https://cdn-prod-static.heartfulness.org/50yrs_breathing1_700x525_82b9e6ffa0.jpg?updated_at=2023-04-11T06:31:44.092Z">
</figure>




<hr class="vertical-space1">



Back then, they called our system of meditation Sahaj Marg – the Natural Way. And what is more natural than
 breathing? We all breathe. Without it we are dead. Without a beating heart and a breath there is no flow of
 anything.



<div class="text-center is-style-rounded">
 <figure><img decoding="async" alt="" style="border-radius: 9999px;"
 class="lazyload img-float-right has-img-center-in-mobile"
 src="https://cdn-prod-static.heartfulness.org/50yrs_breathing3_ff2384c9da.jpg?updated_at=2023-04-11T06:34:57.565Z">
 </figure>
</div>



That was the condition in which my Guide found me, not I him, 50 years ago. He was and still is “the finder.” He
 finds us and leads us on to find our true natural way of life. He breathes it into our hearts. Hidden to us, it is
 something we already are every second of the day, and the night as well. We sleep and we breathe. We breathe and we
 live. So, why yoga and meditation if that breath of life is not there?



Who wants to struggle with a lifeless yoga? Who cares to meditate for hours, breathe in certain odd ways, recite
 endless mantras, or fall to their knees with non-stop praying? The only thing we really need is to forget ourselves.
 Forget who we are. Forget who we think we should be, so that we can become what we have always been, a breath of
 life.



Such a method sounds so easy. And it is easy. You don’t need to sit with a straight back and legs crossed for hours
 and hours suppressing yourself into some sort of mindset. That is what practitioners of yoga have sadly often done,
 and some of us still do, because we still live in the past.



In my Guide and Guru, I am daily found. By someone who doesn’t live in the past. He is not hanging onto anything. He
 doesn’t expect anything, not from you and not from me. He doesn’t remember yesterday and before, cling to it, or get
 stuck in it. He is always here, now, urging us to forget and become. A new way of breathing. A new way of moving
 through life. That is meditation in a nutshell. That was what I needed back then, still now, and tomorrow as well.




<hr class="vertical-space1">



<figure><img decoding="async" width="700" height="525" alt="" class="lazyload has-img-center"
 src="https://cdn-prod-static.heartfulness.org/50yrs_breathing2_700x525_2435440d1d.jpg?updated_at=2023-04-11T06:36:25.027Z">
</figure>




<hr class="vertical-space1">



So, dear sisters and brothers, whoever reads this, I wish you peace, tranquility, and prosperity. We all worry about
 our lives, children, grandchildren, pandemics, and wars. 



Apart from the methods themselves, what have 50 years of Heartfulness Meditation given me to tackle all these worries
 and my own inner turmoil? In the most simple terms, the Guide gave me a friend. One who doesn’t want to teach me
 anything except to breathe in the most common natural way. In such a breath of life, a mere possibility to move on,
 we can all be, and become unknown to ourselves. We can know the Unknown. For that I am forever thankful. For that I
 am forever on the road.



<hr class="vertical-space1">

50 years of breathing

<hr class="vertical-space1" />

<h4>
 By the end of the 1960s, Westerners were traveling to India to visit
 Babuji. Among the first were a group of young Danes, who fell in love
 with Babuji and who were instrumental in bringing the spiritual
 practices of Heartfulness to the West. One of these pioneers
 was&nbsp;THOMAS
 MOGENSEN,&nbsp;who first visited Shahjahanpur in 1971 with his wife and some
 friends. Here he shares some personal stories about how he found
 balance and equilibrium, with some wisdom from Babuji.
</h4>

<hr class="vertical-space1" />


 Nobody could teach me how to ride a two-wheeler bike. My father, my
 mother – they all had a go at it. As long as they ran beside me,
 supporting me with a firm grip on the broomstick mounted behind my
 saddle, I was all right. As soon as they loosened their grip I lost my
 balance. It happened over and over again. Letting go, they gave me a
 slight push into the freedom of biking on my own. I fell and they gave
 up. I must have been about seven years old.



 Then, on a warm sunny summers day, I succeeded in pestering an ice cream
 out of my mother. The ice cream parlor was not just a short walk away.
 You had to follow a dirt road, a mere wheel track, all the way through a
 plantation of pine trees surrounding our summer house to finally reach
 the small village. The first thing to catch my attention was Martha’s
 Ice Cream Parlor, a blue painted shack, soda pops, sausages, that sort
 of thing, and then the ice cream of course.



 Anyway, that particular day I jumped my bike, wheeled all the way to
 Martha’s, had my ice cream and wheeled back home again without fully
 realizing that I was actually biking.&nbsp;Now, had anybody kept
 pouncing on me, “You must do this … No, no, not like that,” it would
 have surely created dislike, resentment, sadness, inferiority feelings,
 and anger. To ever go near my bike again, I would have had to conquer a
 samskara as deep as any we toil to get rid of. My interest and
 curiosity, joy and energetic pedaling would have been blocked from
 carrying me into the art of mastering my bike. I would have ended up
 “school tiered,” as we say in Danish. For years!



 In school, no one could teach me how to read or write properly. Reading
 took time. My handwriting was a mess of small and capital letters
 jumping up and down. The teachers worried, and particularly my father.
 Seventh grade. Something wrong! Then, one fine afternoon, I returned
 from school, sat down and wrote my thesis for tomorrow in the orderly
 handwritten style I still have. A revelation! An angel’s gift right out
 of the blue. What a profound experience producing even more joyous
 pedaling into reading a ton of books.



 Some weeks before Lalaji’s centenary celebration in 1973, I sat alone on
 Babuji’s veranda with Lalaji’s book, Truth Eternal, struggling
 to understand what I was reading. On the verge of giving up, I realized
 that Babuji had appeared from inside his study, now standing there next
 to his easy chair watching me. I looked up. With something like disgust
 he looked at me, then at Lalaji’s book, saying, “This is a very old
 book. Now he has written some new ones. You should write your own book.”



 With the words, “Now he has written some new ones,” he referred not to
 Lalaji but to himself and his own books, while I dropped
 Truth Eternal into my lap, leaned back and relaxed just as he,
 absorbed in his Lalaji, did in his easy chair.



 Books are okay, a few inspiring pages on a rainy day, but who wants to
 become a quotation machine? You know, feed it a question, pull the
 handle, bing! Right answer, 10 points. Babuji didn’t return to his study
 to fetch a load of books and throw them into my lap on top of
 Truth Eternal. He didn’t say, “You must read all these books
 within half a year, otherwise you will not …” He didn’t say that. He
 said, “You should write your own book.” He could have said, “You should
 ride your own bike,” because that was in fact what he did for us
 youngsters hanging around him on the veranda outside his study in
 Shahjahanpur.



 He urged us to ride our own bikes deep into our own interest and
 curiosity, our joy and vital pedaling, by his grace turning us into what
 he still wants all of us to become, whether we are good with books or
 not. The track is clear, the road ready. “Experience will show,” he said
 while literally throwing me empty-handed into conducting my very first
 group meditation during Lalaji’s centenary celebration in Chennai 50
 years ago. What an easy and simple way to enjoy the ice creams
 constantly transmitted to us. “Experience will show.” Close your eyes
 and open that book. There is not a single word in it. Not even a capital
 letter. Find your own balance. “Do and feel.” That, to me, is the
 essence of riding bikes in a natural way.


<hr class="vertical-space1" />

<hr />

<h4 class="has-text-align-center">
 Find your own balance. “Do
 and feel.” That, to me, is the essence
 of riding bikes in a natural way.
</h4>

<hr />

<hr class="vertical-space1" />

Ride your own bike

<h4 style="text-align:justify;">EMILIE MOGENSEN rekindles a correspondence with her father, THOMAS MOGENSEN, which she started in her youth. Years later, she now asks him about what truly matters to him after a lifetime of meditation, spirituality, and living in the world.</h4>History is repeating itself and I’m remembering sitting as a young girl in Manapakkam Ashram, where I spent long periods of my youth. I would stay in the simple dormitory and truly enjoy the simplicity of bare feet and daily meditations. A rather big contrast to my young life back in Denmark.&nbsp;This was before the internet, and I would send my father handwritten letters sharing my experiences with him, getting the replies a few weeks later by snail-mail. Those were the days!One letter I remember in particular had me explaining to my dad how fortunate I felt to spend so much time with my spiritual guide at the time, Chariji. I wrote how I didn’t feel I deserved this time of magic, where I received so much attention and presence, opening up a window to my inner dimensions to an extent I long for today.The reply from my dad was very different from what I expected. He simply wrote that I didn’t deserve it, and that is what makes a spiritual guide special. He gives it anyway! He gives something that no human can ever deserve. With advice not framed as advice; that is how my dad always brought us up, my brother and me. He wanted us to discover from within and not because of outer dogma.I live according to this profound wisdom every day-no human can ever deserve what is so much bigger than any action or any thought or any feeling. It evokes humility.After the release in April of my dad’s book, In the Light Awakening, I got the inspiration to renew the letter exchange, this time over email from one part of Denmark to another.Emilie: Hi dad, congratulations on your new book being released! We are all very happy for this achievement, and I am eager to ask a few questions. If you could put only one word on what your spiritual guide Babuji was for you, what would that word be?Thomas: Becoming.Emilie: Evolutionarily speaking, we are in the midst of so many planetary and human crises, and working with educational projects for young people, I know how extremely challenging it can be to be young nowadays. How can “Becoming” be translated into something that your three grandkids, aged 16, 18, and 23, and all other youngsters can benefit from today?Thomas:&nbsp;Benefit and becoming walk hand in hand. Babuji always said, “On and on.” Young and old. It is our trademark. Then we will become One.Emilie: Not everyone has had or will have the opportunity to spend time with spiritual guides, in person, as we have had in our family. What would be your best experience in life, where you felt this becoming in another way than sitting at the feet of Babuji in Shahjahanpur? And why?Thomas: It happened to us. It can happen to anyone. I was 22 when Babuji picked me and your dear mother up. Then you, your brother, your sister, and my grandchildren blessed my life. What can be greater! &nbsp;I became a grandfather.<hr><h4 style="text-align:center;">Benefit and becoming walk hand in hand. Babuji always said, “On and on.” Young and old. It is our trademark. Then we will become One.</h4><hr>Emilie:&nbsp;Can becoming be cultivated intentionally? How?Thomas: By being aware.Emilie: You have always been ahead of your time. You started meditation more than 50 years ago, and now we see meditation becoming mainstream in the world. You put my brother and me into a progressive school, where values of compassion, solidarity, and creativity dictated the agenda. Now we see alternative schooling systems popping up all over. What is the future like in 50 years from now, if we make it through the planetary and human crises we are in?Thomas:&nbsp;More natural. If we dare to become natural human beings, we need nothing else. It solves everything.Emilie: What is the most important skill to develop in order to reach the vision you just unfolded?Thomas:&nbsp;To bow our heads and give our hearts to Nature. Inside and outside.Emilie: I know it was not always easy to go your own way. Your parents were not particularly fans of you traveling to India as a 21-year-old. What made you able to continue this inner quest of yours, despite being rather different in society back then?Thomas:&nbsp;I had to. The past was the past back then, too. Who wants to be stuck in the past?Emilie:&nbsp;When you are no longer here on the planet, what would you like to be remembered for? What story would you want us all to share about you?Thomas: Not me. Share Babuji’s great message for all humanity.Emilie: This makes me curious. I resonate with living in a state of surrender to that vision, but what if I am not yet there, where I feel a deep meaning in truly forgetting myself and allowing something bigger to unfold? How can young people in today’s world tap into this and truly show up in the world with a sense of authenticity?Thomas: By flying with both wings, as we say in Heartfulness. The material wing and the spiritual wing. Meditation teaches us to do that.Emilie: I am inspired when you mention Nature, as I work with regenerative education, where we use Nature as role model in how to facilitate learning around sustainability. Biodiversity is the foundation of a truly resilient ecosystem, meaning we all are different, and this is seen as a strength in our organizations, schools, societies, etc. As we harness this difference, how can we hold a vision of Oneness?Thomas: Oneness comes first. Oneness is our Nature. Look at children playing. What a beautiful resilient ecosystem they have. They fight and then they find their Oneness again. That is the spirit of Heartfulness Meditation. We are all in the same boat.&nbsp;<img src="https://cdn-prod-static.heartfulness.org/becoming_nature2_1c4a9b6313.webp" alt="becoming-nature2.webp" srcset="https://cdn-prod-static.heartfulness.org/thumbnail_becoming_nature2_1c4a9b6313.webp 145w,https://cdn-prod-static.heartfulness.org/large_becoming_nature2_1c4a9b6313.webp 800w,https://cdn-prod-static.heartfulness.org/becoming_nature2_1c4a9b6313.webp 800w," sizes="100vw">&nbsp;Emilie: Thank you dad, and may the wisdom in your book reach the hearts of many. May it inspire and invite some deepfelt inner reflection, and a good amount of loving, rebellious, spiritual activism.Thomas:&nbsp;A big hug to you and everyone else.&nbsp;<img class="image_resized" style="width:50%;" src="https://cdn-prod-static.heartfulness.org/becoming_nature3_52d6e4d73d.webp" alt="becoming-nature3.webp" srcset="https://cdn-prod-static.heartfulness.org/thumbnail_becoming_nature3_52d6e4d73d.webp 145w,https://cdn-prod-static.heartfulness.org/large_becoming_nature3_52d6e4d73d.webp 250w,https://cdn-prod-static.heartfulness.org/becoming_nature3_52d6e4d73d.webp 250w," sizes="100vw">

Becoming Nature

Thomas is a Psychology M.Sc. and Heartfulness practitioner based in Chester, UK. He is interested in the fusion of spirituality and psychology, and tries to make intellectual topics understandable for a child.

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Thomas Stanley

<h2 style="text-align:center;">HOW DO YOU CONNECT WITH YOUR BELONGINGS?</h2><h4 style="text-align:justify;">THOMAS STANLEY is a psychology master’s student based in Bristol, UK. He shares his awakening to the value of decluttering and Shintoism, and what they teach us about taking better care of our planet Earth.</h4>Two weeks ago, I had an experience which inspired me to think about my relationship with the things I own. In preparation for moving house, I condensed my clothes down to what I would need for the next five days, hung them in my wardrobe, put everything else in a cardboard box, and paused. Not only did the wardrobe look different, but I felt dramatically different looking at it. A feeling of ease enveloped me, a sense of freedom.&nbsp;After living with 28 years of stuff, my awareness was brought to the weight of it all. Why had I been living with this stuff if it had been subtly weighing me down? Inspired by having fewer coat hangers to pick up, I explored the psychological impact of material belongings on our mental wellness.Environment decides our moods, our emotions, our thoughts, our actions. —Kamlesh Patel 1It’s true. Our environment affects us in many ways. More time spent in nature can improve our health and well-being,2 there is generally a higher risk of mental illness in cities than in rural areas,3 and architectural design can impact productivity in the workplace.4 It can even affect our DNA.5 We commonly think of spaces when we think of environment, but our belongings&nbsp;are also a part of it. From the clothes we wear to that box of glass jars under the bed that were going to become terrariums (just me?), the things we own are environmental factors that affect our minds.Clutter can also be an environmental factor. By clutter, I mean things in our environment that make it untidy. One study found that more clutter was associated with more depression throughout the day, fatigue in the evening, and less satisfaction in relationships.6 Our possessions, including the ones we are attached to but don’t regularly use, contribute to the clutter.7 This implies that owning more clutter-prone items can worsen our mental health. So can letting go of such items make us feel better? It seems so!In a scientific literature review on minimalism, 21 studies showed that reducing consumption and excess in one’s life improves well-being.8 Minimalism, also known as voluntary simplicity, is a philosophy that encourages us to live with less, an opposing force to consumerism. For some, it can provide an opportunity to become aware of the intentions that drive us to accumulate different things. A space to notice the thoughts and energy we give to our belongings and the energy they give back. A country with elements of minimalism ingrained into its culture is Japan.<hr><h4 style="text-align:center;">Minimalism, also known as voluntary simplicity,&nbsp; is a philosophy that encourages us&nbsp; to live with less,&nbsp; an opposing force to consumerism.</h4><hr><figure class="image image-style-align-center"><img src="https://cdn-prod-static.heartfulness.org/clutter_clarity2_23ebc07964.jpg"></figure><h4 style="text-align:justify;">Minimalist Practices in Japan</h4>The KonMari method9 is a popular organizing method developed by Marie Kondo, a Japanese author, TV presenter, and consultant known for her bestselling book The Life-Changing Magic of Tidying Up and her Netflix TV show Tidying Up With Marie Kondo.The KonMari method involves gathering all your belongings together in one place, one category at a time, and only keeping the ones that spark joy.&nbsp;To see if an item sparks joy, you hold it and see if it makes you feel joyful.&nbsp;First you go through your clothes, keep the ones that spark joy and discard the ones that don’t, then move on to books, paper, etc. The items you choose to keep are given a specific location where they will stay.&nbsp;Even though this approach is similar to minimalism, Kondo states, “Minimalism advocates living with less; the KonMari Method encourages living among items you truly cherish.”10 Following the KonMari method, you are surrounded by purposeful possessions, creating an environment that reflects the positivity within you.&nbsp;Kondo says that removing household items that don’t spark joy lets you reflect on the usefulness of each item, invoking an opportunity to learn from your past experiences.&nbsp;She says this helps to learn what the feeling of joy means to you, which will develop and aid you in future decluttering.&nbsp;Whilst tidying, she encourages you to set the intention to build an environment that will cater to the person you aspire to be.Whilst the KonMari method has seen a mainstream surge of interest, there is a deeper intention behind it, the influence of Shinto, a religious system in Japan.&nbsp;Kondo previously worked as a priestess at a Shinto shrine,11 which she says influences her method: “In Shintoism and in shrines, tidying and cleaning are regarded as mental cultivation and spiritual training. I suggest people develop their home as if it is their own shrine, which is a power spot to its residents.”Shinto first appeared in the literature over 2,000 years ago.12 In a survey, 80% of people in Japan said they practice the Shinto tradition, but less than 4% identified it as their religion.13What defines Shinto? It is the belief in Kami, divine entities that watch over the universe and live alongside humans, commonly in beautiful objects of nature.14 Humans respect the Kami and, in return, they receive the Kami’s love.15 We communicate with them through offerings and prayer, which is believed to help maintain a sacred relationship with the environment. Cleaning and tidiness are a staple ritual in Shinto, as it is believed that waste and pollution separate a person from the creative nature of Kami, known as Musubi, which connects everything and everyone in the universe.&nbsp;“In the West, we are taught that cleanliness is next to godliness. In Shinto, cleanliness is godliness.”16 This gives a deeper understanding of Kondo’s work and an alternative look at how tidying up can be changed from a chore to a divine act of gratitude.&nbsp;<h4 style="text-align:justify;">The Outcome of My Experience</h4>For most of my life, I have lived in clutter: stuff on the floor, random ideas for art projects under my bed, musical instruments that I did not play, etc. I identified with my creative chaos and was partially content with it. Thinking back on it, I resented organization, being born into a family of hyper-organizers. However, my mess did create some emotional conflict and subtle brain fog, which I am still processing today. I can empathize with people who are okay with their clutter – they may have more pressing matters to attend to or a different way of life.But there is value in decluttering. One way of looking at it is that you spend less time searching for things in a scurry and less time accessing essentials, leading to more time with the things and people that spark joy.<img src="https://cdn-prod-static.heartfulness.org/clutter_clarity3_a81d98fd25.jpg">If it weren’t for moving house, I probably would not have seen the value in decluttering, and I wouldn’t feel this newfound connection to my immediate environment. While disconnecting from your environment personally can create clutter, leading to increased stress and decreased focus,17 disconnecting from the environment on a global scale can lead to mass extinction and poisoning the landscape,18 which I see as the collective clutter and uncleanliness of our collaborative home.&nbsp;I now see the value in Shintoism, and feel that if each of us adopted similar rituals in our day-to-day lives to express more gratitude to the planet and take better care of her (and her belongings), we could reduce the ramifications of consumerism and restore her health.<hr><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cshOZiaxgjo">1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cshOZiaxgjo</a>&nbsp; <a href="#_ftnref2">2</a>&nbsp;<a href="https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-44097-3">https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-44097-3</a> <a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5374256/">3 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5374256/</a> <a href="#_ftnref4">4</a><a href="https://www.researchgate.net/publication/355340634_Factors_Affecting_the_Productivity_of_Employees_in_Architectural_Firms">https://www.researchgate.net/publication/355340634_Factors_Affecting_the_Productivity_of_Employees_in_Architectural_Firms</a> <a href="#_ftnref5">5 </a><a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4887632/">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4887632/</a>&nbsp; <a href="#_ftnref6">6</a>&nbsp;<a href="https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/epdf/10.1177/0146167209352864">https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/epdf/10.1177/0146167209352864</a>&nbsp; <a href="#_ftnref7">7</a> <a href="https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10253860701256208">https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10253860701256208</a>&nbsp; <a href="#_ftnref8">8</a>&nbsp;<a href="https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/17439760.2021.1991450?src=">https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/17439760.2021.1991450?src=</a> <a href="#_ftnref9">9 </a><a href="https://konmari.com/about-the-konmari-method/">https://konmari.com/about-the-konmari-method/</a>&nbsp; <a href="#_ftnref10">10</a> <a href="https://konmari.com/konmari-is-not-minimalism/">https://konmari.com/konmari-is-not-minimalism/</a> <a href="#_ftnref11">11 </a><a href="https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/12102664/Japans-decluttering-guru-says-she-is-on-a-mission-to-organise-the-world.html">https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/12102664/Japans-decluttering-guru-says-she-is-on-a-mission-to-organise-the-world.html</a>&nbsp; <a href="https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/bulletin-of-the-school-of-oriental-and-african-studies/article/helen-hardacre-shinto-a-history-new-york-oxford-university-press-2017-698-pp-isbn-9780190621711/F581DE6974395E5FCE0DE2FAE3931A93">12https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/bulletin-of-the-school-of-oriental-and-african-studies/article/helen-hardacre-shinto-a-history-new-york-oxford-university-press-2017-698-pp-isbn-9780190621711/F581DE6974395E5FCE0DE2FAE3931A93</a>&nbsp; <a href="#_ftnref13">13</a> <a href="https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/book/10.1002/9781444317190">https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/book/10.1002/9781444317190</a>&nbsp; <a href="#_ftnref14">14</a><a href="https://ia803400.us.archive.org/22/items/studies-on-shinto-and-japanese-religion-stuart-picken/Essentials%20of%20Shinto%20-%20Stuart%20D.B.%20Picken.pdf">https://ia803400.us.archive.org/22/items/studies-on-shinto-and-japanese-religion-stuart-picken/Essentials%20of%20Shinto%20-%20Stuart%20D.B.%20Picken.pdf</a>&nbsp; <a href="#_ftnref15">15</a> <a href="https://www.worldcat.org/title/Encyclopedia-of-religion/oclc/56057973">https://www.worldcat.org/title/Encyclopedia-of-religion/oclc/56057973</a>&nbsp; <a href="#_ftnref16">16 </a><a href="https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20191006-what-japan-can-teach-us-about-cleanliness">https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20191006-what-japan-can-teach-us-about-cleanliness</a>&nbsp; <a href="#_ftnref17">17</a> <a href="https://www.jneurosci.org/content/31/2/587">https://www.jneurosci.org/content/31/2/587</a>&nbsp; <a href="#_ftnref18">18</a><a href="https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0013916506295574">https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0013916506295574</a>;<a href="https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40362-014-0021-3">https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40362-014-0021-3</a>&nbsp;<hr><h4 style="text-align:center;">Illustrations by ANANYA PATEL</h4><hr>&nbsp;

From clutter to clarity  

Dr. Field is professor in the Departments of Pediatrics, Psychology, and Psychiatry at the University of Miami School of Medicine and Director of the Touch Research Institute. She specializes in infant development and the efficacy of massage and touch therapy in promoting growth and emotional well-being in premature and low birth weight infants. Field is the author of The Amazing Infant, Infancy, Touch, Touch Therapy, Complementary and Alternative Therapies Research, and Massage Therapy Research, as well as edited volumes.


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Tiffany Field, Ph.D.

Touch in the time of social distancing

Tiziana is a 19-year-old environmental activist. Born in Argentina, she moved to Spain in October 2021 to further her studies, develop her language skills, and fulfill her objective of studying International Relations. Tiziana has continued her environmental activities in Spain, joining the Alicante group of the Fridays for Future climate movement. 



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Tiziana Martin

<h4>TIZIANA MARTIN is a 19-year-old environmental activist, who began in her hometown of Mar del Plata, Argentina, 3 years ago and moved to Spain to develop her language skills and study International Relations as part of her legal studies. Tiziana joined the Alicante group of the Fridays For Future climate movement, and maintains strong links with Argentina, highlighting climate and environmental issues, and speaking regularly with journalists. Here she speaks with RACHEL NELSON of the Heartfulness Institute.</h4><hr>Q: Hello Tiziana, it’s great to speak with you and thanks for joining me. Is there anything in particular that started your activism, and why is it important to you?TM: It happened over time. I didn’t wake up saying, “I want to be a climate activist.” Shortly before entering that world, I represented Argentina in the Model United Nations (MUN). We discussed the role of our country with respect to the Paris Agreement, which binds participating countries to reduce emissions of greenhouse gases and to limit global warming to well below 2 (preferably to 1.5) degrees Celsius, compared to pre-industrial levels.In the MUN, we had to negotiate and deepen international cooperation and that understanding and knowledge of other countries increased my interest in the climate crisis. Moving to Europe last year reaffirmed how much I like international relations.The important thing is to be able to do more and more work, to have the freedom to express my ideas and opinions, to promote work on an international level, and to travel and get to know countries and people that contribute as much as Argentina did for me.My current goal is to study international relations related to environmental activism here in Spain.Q: Climate change is a global problem, but are there specific issues in Argentina or Spain you’re involved in or want to change?”TM: Yes, my home city’s government was recently in favor of letting companies carry out seismic exploration in search of oil and gas, but it is a coastal city, and its main economic activities are tourism and fishing, so they would be affected by oil spills.Although I disagree with the need to continue using fossil fuels, I also understand that we can’t transition to clean energy overnight, and we can’t be an environmental movement that is limited to opposing the productive projects of our country. I believe we have to devise projects that create the best possible environmental conditions, that rely on strong environmental impact studies, and promote development guidelines to enable us to generate the foreign exchange that our countries need.As citizens, we can’t be left out of decision making. It is why we try to have a political influence. This issue of the oil companies touches me very deeply, as it’s happening in my city. Knowing that thousands of people have demonstrated against this project gives me hope.The other day I was talking with my parents who attended the protest, and I understood that not only activists but average citizens are protesting, people who want a healthy future for their children, who don’t want to drink contaminated water, who want to enjoy the coast, and much more.<hr><img src="https://cdn-prod-static.heartfulness.org/Tiziana2_b168b35cc4.jpg?updated_at=2023-04-11T11:24:39.450Z" alt="">&nbsp;<hr>Q: I live in Scotland, and we have a similar situation. A lot of our money comes from tourism and fishing, but we also have oil in the North Sea. We are asking similar questions, and we’re lucky that Scotland is very windy, so wind power is very good here. We just had the COP 26 in Scotland, so there’s been a lot of thought about it recently, but maybe fewer demonstrations here.It’s interesting to look at other countries like Argentina and see what other people are doing. We are lucky in Scotland that we’re not going to be hit badly by climate change until later. But that doesn’t mean we can sit back and do nothing, because it’s other countries we need to think about.How do you think human rights and social justice relate to the climate crisis? Is there a link?TM: Yes. The climate crisis especially affects the sector that contributes the least to it. The social and environmental crisis is an intersectional problem, encompassing many other struggles. I have been in talks with people from Ecuador, Mexico, Colombia, Peru, and Chile, and many of them are native peoples, the main protagonists in the fight for the defense of land. When we talk about intersectionality, we not only talk about them, but we also talk about the fact that the gender inequalities that existed before the climate crisis are going to be a central issue. This is how the climate crisis relates to rights.In Argentina, with the installation of offshore platforms, Article 41 of the National Constitution is being delayed. It establishes that all inhabitants have the right to enjoy a healthy environment. It also establishes access to health, to clean water, and to security, among other things. So, this is a matter of human rights and social justice.Q: Yes, these problems are all interlinked. It’s not just “we’ll deal with the climate crisis then we’ll deal with social injustice,” as they’re often coming from the same issues.&nbsp;Can you tell me about the groups you’re involved in? You mentioned Fridays For Future. Are there other groups? What do you do in those groups to try and help?TM: Three years ago, I joined Jóvenes por el Clima (Youth for Climate), which is affiliated with Fridays for Future, the movement led by Greta Thunberg, the Swedish activist. We grew together in Latin America with the perspective that the climate crisis is a matter of human rights and social justice. Now, in Spain, I am with Fridays For Future.Q: The groups you’re involved in are aimed at people your own age. How do you think young people can positively affect the environment and climate change? Do young people have something that older generations don’t, or do you think it’s just a kind of push because the older generations have let things go for too long?TM: I believe in the power of young people. We are the present, and we have to guarantee the future for future generations. There is a phrase we use a lot at Youth for Climate, “Si el presente es de lucha, el futuro es nuestro!” which means, “If the present is a struggle, the future is ours.”We know what is happening, and we have to do something about it. We need a systemic change. While there are many issues that can’t be changed overnight, if we have the intention to do things well, they will become reality.Sometimes we are afraid to talk about politics, but I feel that politics are fundamental to transforming the present into the future we want. We need an involved and politicized youth.Q: Definitely. You can’t get away from the fact that the power to enact change comes from people and from government. The people in charge have to be willing to change and move things forward. Some governments do more than others, but we need a global consensus. Are governments doing enough?TM: The government projects don’t match the objectives set in the international agreements, for example, at COP 26 in Glasgow. It’s necessary to influence the areas of greatest social transformation, for example, politics and in the streets. Demonstrating and environmental discussion must be open to everyone. It is very important that there is intersectionality influencing the people in power, as they are the decision-makers.For our part, one concrete action is to police politics in relation to the climate and ecological crisis; to change people’s minds and encourage them to participate in their country’s development.Protests are a main tool to express our claims and achieve the transformation for which we fight. A clear example of this happened recently in a province in Argentina, in response to a mining bill. Thanks to demonstrations in different parts of the country, the bill was repealed.<hr><img src="https://cdn-prod-static.heartfulness.org/Tiziana3_245dcec056.jpg?updated_at=2023-04-11T11:26:00.993Z" alt="">&nbsp;<hr>Q: COP 26 saw people getting together for change, but I know a lot of activists felt that while a lot was said, not a lot was decided, and not a lot changed. You’re right that sometimes we need more than a conference. We need people to get out there and make changes themselves. With your example, we can see that it worked.Do you have a message for young activists and people in general?TM: Something I always highlight is for people to really get involved, if not as activists, at least as citizens, as people. Many young people don’t realize the power we have; our voice, our ability to understand the need and be part of the projects and solutions.If you are thinking about getting involved in an environmental movement or organization, take heart, understand what is happening, and think of environmentally sound solutions that go hand in hand with development. Obtain new experiences and tools.For me, activism is a way of life. Once you’re committed, and advance in that process, there is no turning back. For every decision you make, you will find an intersectionality in what you think and do, and the impact your actions will have in the present and the future. I always liked international relations and politics, languages, and cultures, but five years ago I never imagined being in a social environmental movement, giving interviews on TV, etc. During the years of activism in Argentina, I made friends and colleagues, and involved myself in other struggles that have given me knowledge and values.Since I was young, I dreamed of being in Europe to continue my education. My activities here in Spain are wonderful, and I have met activists from all over the world. I learn so much from them. I have gained new tools, encountered new cultures, and practiced English, and I will take more values and knowledge with me.I am very passionate about what I do, and hope that everything I do from now on will improve things.Q: This has clearly become your life. It’s not just “Oh, I’ll do some activism today.” Everything you do lends itself toward that.With these interviews, we want to make sure that young people are being heard. Many of them are stepping out and putting themselves forward when it comes to climate. When people are doing so much work, we want to be able to hear their voices and amplify their voices.What do your family and friends think of you being an activist? Are they supportive?TM: My friends in Argentina are activists, and my family supports me and my friends, too. During the last demonstration in Argentina against the oil companies, my family attended the protest and sent me pictures and videos, because I miss them so much.Q: I can understand that. Do you have any plans for the near future?TM: My dream is to continue to grow in Europe and in Argentina too; to grow as an activist, to be able to study, to work toward environmental issues, and more and more rights for young people, for my country, for Spain. I also love meeting people from other parts of the world. I love learning about other cultures and other languages. They really teach me so much.Q: Europe’s quite good for that. There are so many countries in such a small area, so it’s easy to meet lots of different people.TM: Since I was eight years old, I dreamed of living in Europe. I told my parents I would travel to England for the Beatles, my favorite band, and for the history, too. It’s incredible to be here.Q: Do you have an idea of what career you want to pursue?TM: As a child, my dream was to work with the UN or in a United Europe. I want to be a better person with good values, to work for climate change, for human rights and social justice in Argentina, Latin America, Spain, and the rest of the world, with my friends who are activists. That is my dream. I work for that and study for that. It’s my dream to continue growing as an activist and a person.Q: Thanks, Tiziana. Maybe we should interview you again in five years to see how far you’ve gone. That would be fun!<hr><hr><h4>Interview by RACHEL NELSON&nbsp;</h4><hr>

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